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Ekmek parası saydırır adama.

Daha neler sayıyorlar bir bilsen.

tarihinde Tanri tarafından düzenlendi

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"Günler" ifadesinin 30 defa geçmesi konusunda hem fikirsiniz.

"gün" ifadesini saymak ise nasip olmamış.

Hemfikir olmuş sayılmayız.

Fikirlerimi yazdığım mesajlar silinmişti, teknik sorundan dolayı ve geri de getiremediler.

Yeniden ayrı bir başlık açacaktı Edip ama arada kaynadı.

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rûm sûresi

(2-5) Rumlar, yakın bir yerde yenilgiye uğratıldılar. Onlar yenilgilerinden sonra birkaç yıl içinde galip geleceklerdir. Önce de, sonra da emir Allah’ındır. O gün Allah’ın (Rumlara) zafer vermesiyle mü’minler sevinecektir. Allah, dilediğine yardım eder. O, mutlak güç sahibidir, çok merhametlidir.

bunu kehanet olarak alabilir miyiz? bence alabiliriz.

Bence alamayız.Rumlarım kime yenildiği kimi yeneceği artık meçhul.Sürekli olarak bu bölümler Bizans pers çekişmesine yorumlanıyor ama ben bu ayetlerin Bizans ve İnananlar arasındaki çatışmaya vurgu olduğunu ve müminleri motive etmek için kehanetten çok bir amaca iteklediğini düşünüyorum.

Ahiret ve bunun gibi iyi ya da kötü yöndeki tahminler kehanet değil.

Bu rakamcıların kehanet varvasyonu ayet numaralarını gelişi güzel toplayıp çarpıp bölüm neredeyse olayın tarihini vermeye çalışmak.Mesela 19cu Edip Yüksel kıyametin olacağı yılı söylemiştir.O bir kehanettir.

tarihinde herakles79 tarafından düzenlendi

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Bu rakamcıların kehanet varvasyonu ayet numaralarını gelişi güzel toplayıp çarpıp bölüm neredeyse olayın tarihini vermeye çalışmak.Mesela 19cu Edip Yüksel kıyametin olacağı yılı söylemiştir.O bir kehanettir.

inandıkları şeye ters gidiyorlar. kıyametin zamanını söylemeye çalışan adam müslüman mıdır? muhammed bile yalnız allah biliyor demiş.

"Rumlar, yakın bir yerde yenilgiye uğratıldılar. Onlar yenilgilerinden sonra birkaç yıl içinde galip geleceklerdir." bunun neresi kehanet değil. diyanet böyle çevirmiş hata var mı bilmiyorum da bu bir kehanettir.

şu cümleye tarafsız bir şekilde bakarsan bir kehanet olacağını göreceksin. ama burada başka bir şey kastedilmiş dersen onu bilemem. ilk anlamından kehanet olduğu ortada.

kehanet : gelecekten haber verme

tarihinde Migfer tarafından düzenlendi

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inandıkları şeye ters gidiyorlar. kıyametin zamanını söylemeye çalışan adam müslüman mıdır? muhammed bile yalnız allah biliyor demiş.

"Rumlar, yakın bir yerde yenilgiye uğratıldılar. Onlar yenilgilerinden sonra birkaç yıl içinde galip geleceklerdir." bunun neresi kehanet değil. diyanet böyle çevirmiş hata var mı bilmiyorum da bu bir kehanettir.

şu cümleye tarafsız bir şekilde bakarsan bir kehanet olacağını göreceksin. ama burada başka bir şey kastedilmiş dersen onu bilemem. ilk anlamından kehanet olduğu ortada.

kehanet : gelecekten haber verme

Anladım böyle vurgulara kehanette denebilir diyorsun.İstanbul'un aynı hızda nüfus artışına devam ederse yaşanmaz bir kent olacaktır demek gibi benzeri öngörü ve tahminler kehanet değil kanımca.Gözlemlenebilir yorumlanabilir olgulara dair tahminde bulunmak kehanet değil kanımca.Hava durumu vs gibi.Her gelecek tahmini ve yorumu kehanet değildir.

Benim bahsettiğim bu rakamcıların yeri zamanı rakamları çarpıp bölerek tam verme gayretleri.Yani şöyle diyeyim senin tanımını da kabul ederek(verdiğin ayet gibi ayetlere kehanet denebileceğini kabul ederek) Kuran'ın söylemediği kehanetleri kendi sayısal cambazlıkları ile iddia ediyorlar.

tarihinde herakles79 tarafından düzenlendi

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Saymayı arzulayanlar openburhan'da sayabilir.

İşte size Arapça gün sözcüğü; يَوْمَ

Gün sözcüğünün Arapça çoğulu eyyam, günün çiftlisi yevmeyn ayrışımı yapıyor mu bilmiyorum

çünkü fazla ilgilenesim yok.

Tanrısını sınamayı arzulayan kişilere ilgilenmelerini öneririm.

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Site yeni midir bilmiyorum..

Fakat Xislamın İmzasında yeni gördüm.Bilmiyorum başka üyelerde imzalarına koydumu..

Neyse..

Bu sitede mühim hatalar gözüme çarptı birini belirtmek istiyorum..

1. Mucize İddiası

Bu iddia, hem H hem Ömer Çelakıl’da geçmektedir:

* A0’a ait sitelerden:

Kuran’da “gün (yevm)” kelimesi 365 defa geçmektedir. Bildiğiniz gibi Dünya’nın Güneş etrafında dönüşü 365 gün sürer. Dünya, Güneş’in etrafında dönerken kendi etrafında da tam 365 defa döner.

Kuran’da “gün” kelimesinin 365 defa geçiyor olması, Dünya yörüngesi hakkında bize yüzyıllar öncesinden bilgi vermesi açısından çok önemli bir bulgudur. Kuran’da “gün” kelimesinin 365 defa tekrarlanması, Dünya ile Güneş arasındaki 365 günlük astronomik olaya işaret ediyor olabilir.

Site editörünün verdiği cevapsa şu

Öncelikle belirtmeliyiz ki ”yevm” sözcüğü Kuran’da -iddia edildiği gibi- 365 defa geçmez. >Buradaki arama< 380, >buradaki arama< 412 sonucunu vermektedir. Hangilerinin gün anlamına gelen ”yevm”den bağımsız olduğu, ve sonuç olarak “gün” anlamına gelen ”yevm”in tam olarak kaç kez geçtiği meraklılarınca incelenebilir. Fakat lütfen mucize iddiacılarının sayısız site ve forumlardaki iddialarını peşinen kabul etmeyip eğer ilgi duyuyor ve elzem buluyorsanız biraz vakit ayırın ve kendiniz inceleyin.

Site editörü Kuranda araa motorunu kullanarak ''Yevm'' kelmesini aratıyor ve sonuç 365 çıkmıyor..

Sanırım bir kelimenin kuranda ne kadar geçtiğini bulmak için arama motoru kullanmak çok basit bir ve yanlış bir yöntem..Çünkü bu tip arama motorları bilgisayarınızda ctrl+f ile aynı şekilde çalışır.

Mesela şöyle bir metnimiz olsun

Örümcek ağları çok ince bir yapıya sahip olmasına rağmen çok dayanıklıdırlar..

Dileyen inceleyebilir..

Biz şu metinde ''İnce'' kaç defa geçiyor diye aratırsak 2 adet buluruz.Oysa farkettiniz umarım 1 defa geçer..

Böyle bir aratma metodunu kullanmak cahillikten mi kaynaklanır bilmiyorum..

Ediötürün kalan cevaplarına bir başka konuda değineceğim..

1. Mucize İddiası

Bu iddia, hem Harun Yahya hem Ömer Çelakıl’da geçmektedir:

  • A0’a ait sitelerden:
    Kuran’da “gün (yevm)” kelimesi 365 defa geçmektedir. Bildiğiniz gibi Dünya’nın Güneş etrafında dönüşü 365 gün sürer. Dünya, Güneş’in etrafında dönerken kendi etrafında da tam 365 defa döner.
    Kuran’da “gün” kelimesinin 365 defa geçiyor olması, Dünya yörüngesi hakkında bize yüzyıllar öncesinden bilgi vermesi açısından çok önemli bir bulgudur. Kuran’da “gün” kelimesinin 365 defa tekrarlanması, Dünya ile Güneş arasındaki 365 günlük astronomik olaya işaret ediyor olabilir.

  • Ömer Çelakıl’a ait siteden:
    Kur’an-ı Kerim’de “Bir Gün (yevm)” kelimesi 365 defa geçmektedir. Bildiğiniz gibi Dünya’nın Güneş etrafında tam bir kez dönüşü 365 gün sürer. Kur’an’da 365 defa “bir gün (yevm)” kelimesinin geçiyor olması çok önemli bir bulgudur. Çünkü Dünya yörüngesi hakkında bize yüzyıllar öncesinden bilgi vermektedir. Kısacası Dünya ile Güneş arasındaki 365 günlük astronomik döngü Kuran’da açık bir şekilde belirtilmektedir.

2. Kuran’da ”yevm” sayısı

Öncelikle belirtmeliyiz ki ”yevm” sözcüğü Kuran’da -iddia edildiği gibi- 365 defa geçmez. >Buradaki arama< 380, >buradaki arama< 412 sonucunu vermektedir. Hangilerinin gün anlamına gelen ”yevm”den bağımsız olduğu, ve sonuç olarak “gün” anlamına gelen ”yevm”in tam olarak kaç kez geçtiği meraklılarınca incelenebilir. Fakat lütfen mucize iddiacılarının sayısız site ve forumlardaki iddialarını peşinen kabul etmeyip eğer ilgi duyuyor ve elzem buluyorsanız biraz vakit ayırın ve kendiniz inceleyin.

3. Astronomi, Takvim ve 365 Gün

Bu mucize iddiasındaki basit çarpıtmaları inceleyelim:

Dikkat ediniz; her iki mucize yalanı metninde de herhangi bir takvim değil astronomik bir olgu olan “Dünya’nın Güneş etrafında dönmesi” referans alınmaktadır. Oysa takvimden bağımsız olarak salt astronomik olguyu ele alacak olursak bu süre 365 değil 365,25 gündür. Madem bir ”mucize” iddiasında bulunuluyor ve herşeyi bilen, herşeye gücü yeten mükemmel yaratıcının mucize olarak Kuran’a böyle bir rakam yerleştirdiği söyleniyor o halde bu mucizenin ”tam ve kesin” olmasını talep etmek hakkımız olmalı.

Bugün kullandığımız Miladi Takvim’e (Gregoryen takvimine) göre bir yıl üç defa 365, dördüncü yılda ise 366 gün sürer. Yani bu takvimi esas alacak olursak mucizemiz yine eksiktir. Ama zaten mucize iddiasında esas alınan nokta herhangi bir takvim (yani insanların kararlaştırdığı zaman birimleri) değil astronomik olgunun kendisi. Yani Dünya’nın Güneş’in etrafında bir kez dönmesi esnasında kendi ekseninde kaç kez döndüğü… Bu rakam 365,25′tir.

Keza mucize iddiasında esas alınan herhangi bir takvim olsa iddia zaten baştan suya düşmüş olurdu. Çünkü kullanılan takvim sistemine göre tanım gereği bir yıl içindeki gün sayısı da değişir. Örneğin İslam Dünya’sının kullandığı takvimde Hicri Yıl 354 gündür. Tarih boyunca kullanılmış olan farklı medeniyetlerin takvimlerinde de bir yıl farklı sayıda gün içermiştir. Yani bir yılın 365 gün olması mutlak değil sadece günümüzün çoğunluğu tarafından kullanılan Miladi Takvim’e göre (4 senede bir 366 gün çektiği için) kısmen doğrudur. Dolayısıyla mucizeciler mecburen ”yıl/sene” birimini değil astronomik olgunun kendisini esas almaktalar. İşte bu noktada da diğer bir çarpıtma su yüzüne çıkmakta:

Farzedelim ki bugün Muhammed Peygamber’den beri İslam Dünyası’nda kullanılmakta olan Hicri Takvim’i kullanıyoruz. Yani bir yıl 354 gün çekmekte. Farzedelim ki Dünya bu takvimi kullanıyor. Bu durumda Kuran’da ”gün” kelimesinin 365 kere geçmesinin ilginç hiçbir yanı olur muydu? Olmazdı elbette… Söz konusu astronomik olguya işaret etmeleri de anlamsız olurdu. Çünkü konuyla ilgili ayetlerde Dünya’dan, Güneş’ten, astronomiden değil herhangi şeylerden bahsediliyor. Yani iddianın bütün ”büyüsü/çekiciliği” bizim bugün -hasbel kader- 365 gün çeken bir takvim kullanıyor olmamızda.

Şundan emin olabiliriz ki eğer halâ Hicri Takvim kullanıyor olsaydık bu sefer de 354 rakamına uygun bir mucize yaratırlardı.

4. Kuran Öncesi Astronomi ve Takvim

Dikkat ediniz her iki mucize iddiacısı da ayrıca ne diyor?

  • Harun Yahya
    Kuran’da “gün” kelimesinin 365 defa geçiyor olması, Dünya yörüngesi hakkında bize yüzyıllar öncesinden bilgi vermesi açısından çok önemli bir bulgudur.

  • Ömer Çelakıl’a ait siteden:
    Çünkü Dünya yörüngesi hakkında bize yüzyıllar öncesinden bilgi vermektedir.

Hangi bilgi ”yüzyıllar öncesinden” verilmekte burada?

Dünya’nın 365(,25) günde Güneş etrafında döndüğü zaten Kuran’dan yüzyıllar önce de biliniyordu. Yunan Astronomu Meton milattan önce 432 yılında (yani Kuran’dan 1.000 yıl önce) Dünya’nın 365,25 günde Güneş etrafında döndüğünü hesaplamıştı.

Ayrıca daha sonra Gregoryen reformuna uğrayan ama temel olarak bugün halâ kullanmakta olduğumuz takvim İskenderiyeli Sosigenes tarafından Kuran’dan yaklaşık 7 asır önce bir yılın günlerini 365,25 olarak hesaplanarak oluşturulmuş; bu takvim M.Ö. 46 yılında Jülyen Takvimi olarak kabul görmüş ve batı dünyasında Kuran’dan önce yüzyıllar boyunca kullanılmıştır.

<A href="#">5. Sonuç

Kuran’da “yevm” sözcüğü 365 kere geçmez. Ayrıca bir yılın 365 gün olduğu mutlak ve sabit bir gerçek değil esas alınan takvim sistemine göre değişken ve izafidir. Örneğin İslam Dünya’sının kullandığı Hicri Takvim’de bir yıl 354 gündür. Esas alınan takvim değil de Dünya’nın Güneş etrafında dönerken kendi ekseninde kaç kez dönüyor olduğu ise bu rakam 365,25′tir. Hepsinden önemlisi de bütün bunların Kuran’dan -zaten- yüzyıllar önce biliniyor olmasıdır. Bu bilgilere dayanan bugün kullanmakta olduğumuz takvim bile Kuran’dan yüzyıllar önce kabul edilmiştir.

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Aslında bir ara oturup saymak lazım geliyor..

Fakat öyle kuranda ara motoruyla değil.Öncelikle 365 sayısı hangi kaideye göre çıkarılmış onu bilmek lazım..

Bir yerde sadece tekil olarak geçen yevm kelimeleri 365 ediyor diye okumuştum..

oturup 1 2 saat zarfında sayılabilir.Ama yinede bu bu araştırma metodunu haklı çıkarmıyor..

Kuranda böyle kelime aratılmaz..Değil kuranda hiçbir metinde bu şeilde bir kelimenin ne kadar geçtiğini bulamazsınız yanlış çıkar..

Eğer bu şekilde 365 çıksa idi ben yine yanlış metod kontrol etmek lazım derdim..

tarihinde iLLeGaLTM tarafından düzenlendi

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Kuranda böyle kelime aratılmaz..Değil kuranda hiçbir metinde bu şeilde bir kelimenin ne kadar geçtiğini bulamazsınız yanlış çıkar..

Şimdi de biz yazılımcıları angut ettin çıkardın, bu kadar basit bir algortimayı yazamıyorsak vay halimize.

Belli bir kriteri olmazsa yazamazsın tabi,belli bir kriteri olmayan sayıma da mucize denmez.

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Öncelikle belirtmeliyiz ki ”yevm” sözcüğü Kuran’da -iddia edildiği gibi- 365 defa geçmez. >Buradaki arama< 380, >buradaki arama< 412 sonucunu vermektedir. Hangilerinin gün anlamına gelen ”yevm”den bağımsız olduğu, ve sonuç olarak “gün” anlamına gelen ”yevm”in tam olarak kaç kez geçtiği meraklılarınca incelenebilir. Fakat lütfen mucize iddiacılarının sayısız site ve forumlardaki iddialarını peşinen kabul etmeyip eğer ilgi duyuyor ve elzem buluyorsanız biraz vakit ayırın ve kendiniz inceleyin.

Bu yanıt yanlış.

Bu konuda İllegaltm haklı.

Bu sayma işi arama motoruyla olmaz.

Mucize iddiasını ben de doğru bulmuyorum ama benim sözcük seçimindeki mantığa itirazım var.

Bence asıl bu alıntının sahibinin vakit ayırıp, inceleyip doğru yanıtı vermesi gerekir.

Bu "Mucize yalanları" sitesi, sadece bir kişi oturup mucize iddialarını yanıtlasın diye kurulmadı.

Her konu detaylı olarak tartışılıp, irdelenip değerlendirilmeli. Bu değerlendirmeye göre hazırlanan yazı siteye

asılmalı.

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Doğmatik davranan, önyargı ile yaklaşan tüm inkarcılar ne kadar ayet gösterilse kör ve sağır davranacaklardır. İster ateist, ister sunni veya şii, ister hristiyan veya yahudi olsun.

Daha önce bu konuyu neredeyse kitap boyu tartıştım bir Yahudi ve bir Sunni inkarcıyla... Her ikisi de Kuran'da gün ve ay kelimelerinin geçiş sayılarını inkar ettiler... Dalga geçtikleri konudaki cehaletleriyle orantılı kibir ve gurur ile sarhoş oldukları için maalesef günlerce onlarla tartışma durumunda kaldım. Aynı tartışmayı bu kez Türkçe konuşan klonları ile yapacak vaktim ve sabrım yok maalesef. Www.yuksel.org sitesine giriş kendini mehdi sanan bir şarlatan tarafından kapatıldığı için muhtemelen bazılarına açık değil. Bu yüzden ilgili tartışmayı buraya alacağım.

Tartışma, en sonunda 365 gün'ü ve daha birkaç destekleyici sayımın doğrulanması ile sonuçlanmıştı. Liste en sonda... Listeyi incelemek için İnglizce bilmeye gerek yok.

Alıntı çok uzun olduğu için birkaç bölüme ayırarak asacağım.

Selam,

Edip

365 Days: Literal Harmony and Astronomical Events

This is n internet argument on the frequency of the word YaWM (Day) in the Quran. In the end of this lengthy argument, Daniel Lomax admitted that the frequency of the word YaWM (day) in singular form is indeed 365, its plural form is 30, and the total of all its derivatives is 475 (19x25). This is one of the rare arguments that both parties finally reach to the same conclusion.

Edip Yuksel versus Daniel Lomax, at al

In 1959, Abdurrazzaq Nawfal, an Egyptian scholar, noticed some mathematical relations between the frequency of certain words. While writing his book "Al-Islamu Deenun wa Dunya" (Islam: both Religion and World), he noticed that the frequency of the word "Dunya" (World) had exactly the same frequency as the word "Akhirah" (Hereafter), 115 times each, in the Quran. In 1968, while writing another book titled "Alemul Jinni wal Malayika" (Universe of Jinns and Angels), he noticed that the word "Shaytan" (Satan) had exactly the same frequency as the word "Malak" (Angel), 88 times each. These interesting literary symmetry in the frequency of certain words led him to make a more comprehensive study on the numerical structure of the Quran. Nawfal published his findings in 1983 in a book: "Al-I'cazul Adadiy LilQuranil Kareem" (Numerical Miracle Of the Holy Quran). The book was published by Darul Kitabil Arabiy, Beirut, Lebanon.

Some of his findings are striking. Three examples, I believe, leaves no doubt that the Quran is a mathematically designed unique book.

The word "month" (shahr) occurs 12 times.

The word "days" (ayyam,yawmayn) occurs 30 times.

The word "day" (yawm) occurs 365 times.

When Ahmed ELNEWEIHI posted a brief article on SRI (Socio.Religion.Islam) informing the readers the frequency of these three words in the Quran, all the followers of medieval Arab fabrications (Hadith and Sunna) rushed to reject the claims. The ignorance and backwardness of the followers of Hadith and Sunna, unfortunately is reinforced by their arrogance. They can never see the miracle of the Quran. They only parrot their scholar's empty rhetoric that the Quran is a literary miracle without questioning its meaning and implications. They reduce the author of the Quran to the level of their simple-minded scholars. "How could God's word have a mathematical pattern in it? Mathematics? No way!" they exclaim. Then, they try all the tricks and deception to reject the obvious mathematical patterns exist in the Quran.

If you are interested with the arguments on the mathematical structure of the Quran, please obtain my lengthy debate with Lomax, in "Running Like Zebras". The argument exposes the hypocrisy and deception of those who have traded God's word with medieval Arab fabrications, that is, Hadith and Sunnah. You can download the book from http://www.moslem.org/yuksel.htm. [Now, you can download the book from tihs site]

In the end of this argument we will present the list of chapters and verses where these three words occur in the Quran.

Ahmed ELNEWEIHI:The word "YAWM", or "day" is mentioned 365 times in the quraan.

DEAN Ahmad: But there are 354 days in the Muslim year.

ELNEWEIHI: But, who said the Quran is restricted to the muslim calender? The Quran is a message to all mankind and should reflect the more "accurate" count of the number of days in the year.

Daniel LOMAX: Then should we expect there to be 365.2425 occurrences of the word "day" in the Qur'an? By the way, has anyone verified the count? This figure comes from the Khalifites, who are notorious for doctored counts. Many of them do not check out.

Jochen KATZ: Well, shouldn't you expect more accuracy from the word of God, if it was indeed a thing planned by him to discover? It is more like 365.3 days. So, only a crude first approximation. And then, scientific research has shown that the earth is slowing down in its rotation. Comparison of some shells and the growth rings of very old trees that have been found, show that several thousand years ago the year had nearly 400 days. And we are loosing a number of seconds every year. So, the time will come it won't only have 364 days and each day a bit longer than today. That too will make the miracle disappear. Just wait long enough.

ELNEWEIHI: If you have a word that makes sense and can be described as 0.3.... of a word, please let me know.

This is not a "crude" approximation, this is a mathematically correct approximation. I thought from your e-mail address that you may have some mathematical background, but may be I am wrong. For your information, 365 is the proper mathematical rounding up of the number 365.3.......

Having been so accurate as to request that the Quran should have repeated the word "Day" 365.3.... times (and even then, I am sure you would not have been convinced), I do not expect that you turn around and tell me that your reasons for believing in Jesus is that he was foretold in the Bible. I will then ask you to find from the bible a quote that describes all the details (including the height, the color, the era, the name of the king of the day, . so on..) that would show beyond any doubt that your beliefs are on sound basis. After all, the Bible should have made it so clear that no one would have any doubt that he was the Son of God.

Edip YUKSEL: Katz is demonstrating a sophisticated degree of knowledge! Ironically, he flunks to see the clear and simple relation between the frequency of the word "yawm" (day) in the Quran, and the number of days in a year, that is 365. I wonder why he is resorting to fractions of a day to deny such a clear message. How hard he is trying to reject the clear mathematical relation! Watching the Muhammedan and Christian disbelievers rejecting the clear divine signs confirms the Quranic statement once more (6:25; 7:146).

As for the slowing down... Well, the number of days won't go down 364 since the end of the world is not too far (42:17 ....). Quran gives the time of the "Hour" and it is less than a thousand year. The Hour will struck disbelievers. Just wait long enough.

KATZ: By the way, some Christians employ the same silly reasoning to the Bible too. You are welcome to answer in the same revealing way.

ELNEWEIHI: I will not turn down your invitation. I agree you with you that some christians employ silly reasoning to the bible, but I do not agree that it is the "same" silly reasoning. For the numberof days in a year is 365 is not silly, but how some christians quote from the bible to show that the bible had predicted the future is indeed silly. I heard and read some of them say the bible had predicted many events and wars when it said that people of the North will conquer people of the South and so on.

KATZ: Counting exercises keep many a believer busy. But I don't think they will ever establish anything of great significance. Just my personal opinion.

ELNEWEIHI: If you remember, I said to you in my first article that we can go on with these and similar discusions without producing any evidence that can be called "an evidence beyond any doubt". I invited you to debate with me the basis I cited before (and can cite again) for my belief and those that you can site for your belief. You have unfortunately declined.

Your answer reminded me of the verse in the Quran where God says to Muhammed that even if He (God) sent down a ladder from the sky so that Muhammed can climb on it in front of the non-believer (as a proof of being a prophet of God) , they will only say: you musthave hypnotized us to see you doing this, but it was not actually true.

KATZ: just head [sic] read this 'slowing down thing' a few days ago, so that was a new thought, but I had better adorned it with many smileys as to not be taken so seriously in this specific posting.

ELNEWEIHI: It is too bad you are retracting that statement, because it just occured to me that if the "slowing down thing" was correct, it would have pointed to yet, another miracle in the Qur'an.

Since the counting of the word "Yawm" or "day" and relating it to the number of days in a year was "discovered" only recently, one can say that the Qur'an has prophesized that when people will discover this count, the number of days in the time of this discovery will indeed be rounded to 365 days. In other words, we would have here the combination of a scientific fact and a prophecy in one.

Would not that have been a more accurate prophecy than the statements in the bible that christians claim them to be prophecies, to try to prove that the bible is truly the word of God?

I must add here that until I verify the count of the word "Yawm" in the Qur'an myself, I can not claim any miracle. I must also repeat that I am not in a hurry to do that, because this is not the basis of my belief.

KATZ: For that I want to combine Mr. Lomax counting results with Ahmed Elneweihi's ingenious prophetic interpretation. :)

Now, may I propose that this is a backward prophecy instead of a forward prophecy? And the scientific method (proof?) given by the Qur'an (or better: by those who have nothing better to do to make up proofs for ) (the divine origin of it by methods which were never intended to be read into ) (the text) for the real age of the earth is that we calculate back how many years from the creation of the earth it would have taken to slow down the rotation of the earth as to give the decrease from 475 days/year to 365 days/year, because clearly, this given number corresponds to the time of creation.

Only humorous responses to this posting will be taken seriously.

Asser HASSANAIN:You know, I don't understand what these arguments about the numeracity of the Quran is all about! The numeracity of the Quran (that is, the striking numerical pattern) should NOT be used as means to support an unrelated religious view or a religious discussion.

LOMAX: I admire the brother for admitting his ignorance at the outset. What striking pattern? Aside from the utter lack of such a "pattern," I agree with the remainder. Whatever pattern exists, even if it is very, very striking, does not ipso facto prove much other than there is a pattern. When I did believe that there was a clear pattern, it did not lead me to conclude that Rashad Khalifa was a Messenger!, only that the book was beyond ordinary human origin. But I was depending on false data from Khalifa.

Nevertheless, I remain grateful to him, for this false data increased my faith and led me to begin to seriously read the Qur'an in Arabic, where I found ample confirmation not dependent upon number tricks.

LOMAX: Brother Behnam has noted the lack of independent confirmation of Khalifa's work. This is a little misleading. Many others have reported on numerical phenomena in the Qur'an; however, there is no coherent explanation of what it is nor any demonstration that what has been discovered is statistically significant. "Beyond Probability" by Arik does attempt a calculation of probability, but it is incorrect on its face, as will be seen by anyone who knows probability theory. It does not take an expert, by the way, just a basic knowledge.

Further, Khalifa's work is so full of errors and undocumented methods that anyone who tries to verify it soon runs into serious difficulties. This is not obvious to English speakers, because our language is written very differently than Arabic. For example, Khalifa counts the letter alif, but there is, in fact, no consensus on how to write alif in the Qur'an, and Khalifa's counts correspond to no known ms. or system of writing. Certainly they do not correspond to the Tashkent mushaf, which Khalifa used when counting Sad (in one place; it is not clear that he used it consistently, in fact, it is clear that he did not.)

Some time back, I wrote a "Draft FAQ" on this subject, detailing matters on which clarity is necessary before claims about these miracles can be objectively verified. Yuksel promised to respond to that, but so far, nothing but more bluster. I think I will repost that FAQ.

LOMAX: It is the wont [sic] of Khalifites to claim this or that numerical phenomenon in the Qur'an as a "miracle." In spite of repeated invitations, they have never defined just what they mean by "miracle," but the apparent meaning is any striking congruity of numbers derived from the Qur'an, or sometimes from other sources like the numerical values of the letters in Rashad Khalifa's name.

When word counts are involved, more often than not, I have found that the counts have been manipulated to produce the striking totals. This claim that the occurrence of the word "day" (yawm) in the Qur'an is 365 is a very good example.

Edip Yuksel wrote: "Below is the frequency of the word "Yawm" day (in its singular form) in the Quran. I have copied from one of my Turkish books. Unfortunately, during the transfer it lost its format."

Notice that Yuksel did qualify the statement, unlike the earlier mentions of this "miracle" in this newsgroup. He is only counting singular forms. Now, if it were necessary to count the dual and plural forms of the word to come up with the "miraculous" total, I am certain that they would have been included. Nevertheless, it would be interesting if all occurrences of the singular "day" in the Qur'an totalled 365. Do they?

I have seen this claim before. Then, I looked up "yawm" in the Kassis concordance, and found 475 mentions. However, this included the dual and plural forms, and it is a piece of work to separate them out. But now Yuksel has presented us with a list, albeit mangled, of his claimed "singular forms." Further, I just obtained a copy of the Flugel concordance, which lists each unique form in superb detail. So, I was moved to check this claim out more precisely.

I took Yuksel's list, formatted it, and imported it into a database program. Then I used the Kassis concordance to insert all mentions of the word, including the dual and plural. Since Kassis, conveniently, gives the verse numbers from Flugel's edition of the Qur'an in addition to the more standard numbers used by Khalifa, I was able to easily identify each form. In the process, I found several misprints in Yuksel's list, plus tabulation errors, as well as three occurrences missing from Flugel. I did not find any errors in Kassis. Note, however, that I do not have a validated Arabic Qur'an in machine-readable form. It is possible, but unlikely, that there are additional mentions not listed here.

The finished database is appended below for anyone who wishes to examine the data.

Of the 475 total occurrences of all forms of "yawm," 3 are in the dual and 27 are in the plural, leaving 445 in the singular.

Flugel's concordance lists 34 different forms of this word, including variations caused by prefixes or suffixes. Here is a list of these forms, with the total count for each form, and Yuksel's inferred count. The "<" at the right shows counts which are in error, or which result from an unstated condition. The number at the beginning of each row is the sequence of the form in Flugel. Transliteration notes are at the end of this article.

F. form total/Yuksel

20 !al-'ayya!mu 1 0 plural

16 !alyawma 38 38

24 !l-'ayya!mi 1 0 plural

9 !lyawmi 1 1

3 !lyawmu 2 2

26 -'ayya!ma~! 3 0 plural

21 -'ayya!mi 1 0 plural

23 -'ayya!mi~ 18 0 plural

25 -'yya!ma 1 0 plural

10 bi!lyawmi 2 2

22 bi-'ayya!mi 1 0 plural

5 biyawmi 5 5

17 fa!lyawma 8 6 <

33 fayawma^'i&i~ 4 0 <

6 liyawmi 4 4

8 liyawmi~ 4 4

18 wa!lyawma 2 2

12 wa!lyawmi 21 21

27 wa-'ayya!ma~! 1 0 plural

11 wabi!lyawmi 1 1

14 wayawma 44 44

34 wayawma^'i&i~ 1 0 <

13 yawma 132 131

32 yawma^'i&i~ 65 1 <

15 yawma~! 16 16

31 yawmahum 4 1 <

19 yawmayni 3 0 dual

4 yawmi 31 31

7 yawmi~ 28 28

30 yawmihim 2 1 <

29 yawmikum 4 0 <

1 yawmu 16 16

2 yawmu~ 9 9

28 yawmukum 1 0 <

TOTALS 475 364

Yuksel's counts do not add up to 365 because he skipped his number 297. To summarize the discrepancies, besides plurals, Yuksel has not counted any of the forms ending with ^-i&i~, except for one single mention at 45:27. This accounts for 69 omissions. He counted 6 mentions of fa!lyawma out of 8 (2 omissions). He also inconsistently counted simple forms of yawm with suffixed pronouns: 1 out of 4 occurrences of yawmahum were counted (3 omissions), 1 out of 2 yawmihim (1 omissions), and yawmikum and yawmukum were not counted at all (5 omissions). Finally, he missed a mention of yawma at 45:17. With the 30 duals and plurals, this accounts for the difference of 111.

I see no way to reconcile this data with the claim of 365 mentions. The sloppiness of the counting is typical of Khalifite claims; if the count works out, research and checking have a tendency to stop.

I would appreciate notice of any substantive errors in this article...

ALL MENTIONS OF ANY FORM OF "YAWIMA" IN THE QUR'AN

"yseq" is the number given by Yuksel to the mention, or is his number for the most recent mention.

"xseq" is the number of additional mentions I found. If "xseq" is 0, the mention is found in Yuksel's article. These numbers can be used to recover the verse order if the database has been resorted.

"verse" is the standard verse number, prefixed with "y" if it is from Yuksel, and "x" if it is not in his article.

"F#" is the verse number from Flugel's concordance and Qur'an.

"form" gives my own transliteration of the Arabic form. This is non-standard, but standard transliteration does not fully convey Arabic writing, only pronunciation, more or less. Transliteration notes are at the end.

"trans" is a rough translation of some words; also some mentions of "day" give a specific number, which is shown.

yseq xseq verse F# form trans notes

1 1 0 y1:4 3 yawmi

2 2 0 y2:8 7 wabi!lyawmi

3 3 0 y2:48 45 yawma~!

4 4 0 y2:62 59 wa!lyawmi

5 4 1 x2:80 74 -'ayya!ma~! days

6 5 0 y2:85 79 wayawma

7 6 0 y2:113 107 yawma

8 7 0 y2:123 117 yawma~!

9 8 0 y2:126 120 wa!lyawmi

10 9 0 y2:174 169 yawma

11 10 0 y2:177 172 wa!lyawmi

12 10 2 x2:184 180 -'ayya!ma~! days

13 10 3 x2:184 180 -'ayya!mi~ days

14 10 4 x2:185 181 -'ayya!mi~ days

15 10 5 x2:196 192 -'ayya!mi~ 3 days

16 10 6 x2:203 199 -'ayya!mi~ days

17 10 7 x2:203 199 yawmayni 2 days

18 11 0 y2:212 208 yawma

19 12 0 y2:228 228 wa!lyawmi

20 13 0 y2:232 232 wa!lyawmi

21 14 0 y2:249 250 !alyawma

22 15 0 y2:254 255 yawmu~

23 16 0 y2:259 261 yawma~! Y had 2:255

24 17 0 y2:259 261 yawmi~ part day

25 18 0 y2:264 266 wa!lyawmi

26 19 0 y2:281 281 yawma~!

27 20 0 y3:9 7 liyawmi~

28 20 8 x3:24 23 -'ayya!ma~! days

29 21 0 y3:25 24 liyawmi~

30 22 0 y3:30 28 yawma

31 22 9 x3:41 36 -'ayya!mi~ 3 days

32 23 0 y3:55 48 yawmi

33 24 0 y3:77 71 yawma

34 25 0 y3:106 102 yawma

35 26 0 y3:114 110 wa!lyawmi

36 26 10 x3:140 134 !al-'ayya!mu days

37 27 0 y3:155 149 yawma

38 28 0 y3:161 155 yawma

39 29 0 y3:166 160 yawma

40 29 11 x3:167 160 yawma^'i&i~ that day

41 30 0 y3:180 176 yawma

42 31 0 y3:185 182 yawma

43 32 0 y3:194 192 yawma

44 33 0 y4:38 42 bi!lyawmi

45 34 0 y4:39 43 wa!lyawmi

46 34 12 x4:42 45 yawma^'i&i~ that day

47 35 0 y4:59 62 wa!lyawmi

48 36 0 y4:87 89 yawmi

49 37 0 y4:109 109 yawma

50 38 0 y4:136 135 wa!lyawmi

51 39 0 y4:141 140 yawma

52 40 0 y4:159 157 wayawma

53 41 0 y4:162 160 wa!lyawmi

54 42 0 y5:3 4 !alyawma

55 43 0 y5:3 5 !alyawma

56 44 0 y5:5 7 !alyawma

57 45 0 y5:14 17 yawmi

58 46 0 y5:36 40 yawmi

59 47 0 y5:64 69 yawmi

60 48 0 y5:69 73 wa!lyawmi

61 48 13 x5:89 91 -'ayya!mi~ 3 days

62 49 0 y5:109 108 yawma

63 50 0 y5:119 119 yawmu

64 51 0 y6:12 12 yawmi

65 52 0 y6:15 15 yawmi~

66 52 14 x6:16 16 yawma^'i&i~ that day

67 53 0 y6:22 22 wayawma

68 54 0 y6:73 72 wayawma

69 55 0 y6:73 73 yawma

70 56 0 y6:93 93 !alyawma

71 57 0 y6:128 128 wayawma

72 57 15 x6:130 130 yawmikum

73 58 0 y6:141 142 yawma

74 59 0 y6:158 159 yawma

75 59 16 x7:8 7 yawma^'i&i~ that day

76 60 0 y7:14 13 yawmi

77 61 0 y7:32 30 yawma

78 61 17 x7:51 49 fa!lyawma today

79 62 0 y7:51 49 yawmihim

80 63 0 y7:53 51 yawma

81 63 18 x7:54 52 -'ayya!mi~ 6 days

82 64 0 y7:59 57 yawmi~

83 65 0 y7:163 163 yawma

84 66 0 y7:163 163 wayawma

85 67 0 y7:167 166 yawmi

86 68 0 y7:172 171 yawma

87 68 19 x8:16 16 yawma^'i&i~

88 69 0 y8:41 42 yawma

89 70 0 y8:41 42 yawma

90 71 0 y8:48 50 !alyawma

91 72 0 y9:3 3 yawma

92 73 0 y9:18 18 wa!lyawmi

93 74 0 y9:19 19 wa!lyawmi

94 75 0 y9:25 25 wayawma

95 76 0 y9:29 29 bi!lyawmi

96 77 0 y9:35 35 yawma

97 78 0 y9:36 36 yawma

98 79 0 y9:44 44 wa!lyawmi

99 80 0 y9:45 45 wa!lyawmi

100 81 0 y9:77 78 yawmi

101 82 0 y9:99 100 wa!lyawmi

102 83 0 y9:108 109 yawmi~

103 83 20 x10:3 3 -'ayya!mi~ 6 days

104 84 0 y10:15 16 yawmi~

105 85 0 y10:28 29 wayawma

106 86 0 y10:45 46 wayawma

107 87 0 y10:60 61 yawma

108 88 0 y10:92 92 fa!lyawma

109 89 0 y10:93 93 yawma

110 89 21 x10:102 102 -'ayya!mi days

111 90 0 y11:3 3 yawmi~

112 90 22 x11.07 9 -'ayya!mi~ 6 days

113 91 0 y11:8 11 yawma

114 92 0 y11:26 28 yawmi~

115 93 0 y11:43 45 !alyawma

116 94 0 y11:60 63 wayawma

117 94 23 x11:65 68 -'ayya!mi~ 3 days

118 94 24 x11:66 69 yawma^'i&i~ that day

119 95 0 y11:77 79 yawmu~

120 96 0 y11:84 85 yawmi~

121 97 0 y11:98 100 yawma

122 98 0 y11:99 101 wayawma

123 99 0 y11:103 105 yawmu~

124 100 0 y11:103 105 yawmu~

125 101 0 y11:105 107 yawma

126 102 0 y12:54 54 !alyawma

127 103 0 y12:92 92 !alyawma

128 103 25 x14.05 5 bi-'ayya!mi days

129 104 0 y14:18 21 yawmi~

130 105 0 y14:31 36 yawmu~

131 106 0 y14:41 42 yawma

132 107 0 y14:42 43 liyawmi~

133 108 0 y14:44 44 yawma

134 109 0 y14:48 49 yawma

135 109 26 x14:49 50 yawma^'i&i~ that day

136 110 0 y15:35 35 yawmi

137 111 0 y15:36 36 yawmi

138 112 0 y15:38 38 yawmi

139 113 0 y16:25 27 yawma

140 114 0 y16:27 29 yawma

141 115 0 y16:27 29 !alyawma

142 116 0 y16:63 65 !alyawma

143 117 0 y16:80 82 yawma

144 118 0 y16:80 82 wayawma

145 119 0 y16:84 86 wayawma

146 119 27 x16:87 89 yawma^'i&i~ that day

147 120 0 y16:89 91 wayawma

148 121 0 y16:92 94 yawma

149 122 0 y16:111 112 yawma

150 123 0 y16:124 125 yawma

151 124 0 y17:13 14 yawma

152 125 0 y17:14 15 !alyawma

153 126 0 y17:52 54 yawma

154 127 0 y17:58 60 yawmi

155 128 0 y17:62 64 yawmi

156 129 0 y17:71 73 yawma

157 130 0 y17:97 99 yawma

158 131 0 y18:19 18 yawma~!

159 132 0 y18:19 18 yawmi~ part day

160 133 0 y18:47 45 wayawma

161 134 0 y18:52 50 wayawma

162 134 28 x18:99 99 yawma^'i&i~ that day

163 134 29 18:100 100 yawma^'i&i~ that day

164 135 0 y18:105 105 yawma

165 136 0 y19:15 15 yawma

166 137 0 y19:15 15 wayawma

167 138 0 y19:15 15 wayawma

168 139 0 y19:26 27 !alyawma

169 140 0 y19:33 34 yawma

170 141 0 y19:33 34 wayawma

171 142 0 y19:33 34 wayawma

172 143 0 y19:37 38 yawmi~

173 144 0 y19:38 39 yawma

174 145 0 y19:38 39 !alyawma

175 146 0 y19:39 40 yawma

176 147 0 y19:85 88 yawma

177 148 0 y19:95 95 yawma

178 149 0 y20:59 61 yawmu

179 150 0 y20:64 67 !alyawma

180 151 0 y20:100 100 yawma

181 152 0 y20:101 101 yawma

182 153 0 y20:102 102 yawma

183 153 30 x20:102 102 yawma^'i&i~ that day

184 154 0 y20:104 104 yawma~!

185 154 31 x20:108 107 yawma^'i&i~ that day

186 154 32 x20:109 108 yawma^'i&i~ that day

187 155 0 y20:124 124 yawma

188 156 0 y20:126 126 !alyawma

189 157 0 y21:47 48 liyawmi

190 157 33 x21:103 103 yawmukum your day

191 158 0 y21:104 104 yawma

192 159 0 y22:2 2 yawma

193 160 0 y22:9 9 yawma

194 161 0 y22:17 17 yawma

195 161 34 x22:28 29 -'ayya!mi~ days

196 162 0 y22:47 46 yawma~!

197 163 0 y22:55 54 yawmi~

198 163 35 x22:56 55 yawma^'i&i~ that day

199 164 0 y22:69 68 yawma

200 165 0 y23:16 16 yawma

201 166 0 y23:65 67 !alyawma

202 167 0 y23:100 102 yawmi

203 167 36 x23:101 103 yawma^'i&i~ that day

204 168 0 y23:111 113 !alyawma

205 169 0 y23:113 115 yawma~!

206 170 0 y23:113 115 yawmi~ part day

207 171 0 y24:2 2 wa!lyawmi

208 172 0 y24:24 24 yawma

209 172 37 x24:25 25 yawma^'i&i~ that day

210 173 0 y24:37 37 yawma~!

211 174 0 y24:64 64 wayawma

212 175 0 y25:14 15 !alyawma

213 176 0 y25:17 18 wayawma

214 177 0 y25:22 24 yawma

215 177 38 x25:22 24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

216 177 39 x25:24 26 yawma^'i&i~ that day

217 178 0 y25:25 27 wayawma

218 178 40 x25:26 28 yawma^'i&i~ that day

219 179 0 y25:26 28 yawma~!

220 180 0 y25:27 29 wayawma

221 180 41 x25:59 60 -'ayya!mi~ 6 days

222 181 0 y25:69 69 yawma

223 182 0 y26:38 37 yawmi~

224 183 0 y26:82 82 yawma

225 184 0 y26:87 87 yawma

226 185 0 y26:88 88 yawma

227 186 0 y26:135 135 yawmi~

228 187 0 y26:155 155 yawmi~

229 188 0 y26:156 156 yawmi~

230 189 0 y26:189 189 yawmi

231 190 0 y26:189 189 yawmi~

232 191 0 y27:83 85 wayawma

233 192 0 y27:87 89 wayawma

234 192 42 x27:89 91 yawma^'i&i~ that day

235 193 0 y28:41 41 wayawma

236 194 0 y28:42 42 wayawma

237 195 0 y28:61 61 yawma

238 196 0 y28:62 62 wayawma

239 197 0 y28:65 65 wayawma

240 197 43 x28:66 66 yawma^'i&i~ that day

241 198 0 y28:71 71 yawmi

242 199 0 y28:72 72 yawmi

243 200 0 y28:74 74 wayawma

244 201 0 y29:13 12 yawma

245 202 0 y29:25 24 yawma

246 203 0 y29:36 35 !alyawma

247 204 0 y29:55 55 yawma

248 204 44 x30:4 3 wayawma^'i&i~ that day

249 205 0 y30:12 11 wayawma

250 206 0 y30:14 13 wayawma

251 206 45 x30:14 13 yawma^'i&i~ that day

252 207 0 y30:43 42 yawmu~

253 207 46 x30:43 42 yawma^'i&i~ that day

254 208 0 y30:55 54 wayawma

255 209 0 y30:56 56 yawmi

256 210 0 y30:56 56 yawmu

257 210 47 x30:57 57 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

258 211 0 y31:33 32 yawma~!

259 211 48 x32:4 3 -'ayya!mi~ 6 days

260 212 0 y32:5 4 yawmi~

261 212 49 x32:14 14 yawmikum your day

262 213 0 y32:25 25 yawma

263 214 0 y32:29 29 yawma

264 215 0 y33:21 21 wa!lyawma

265 216 0 y33:44 43 yawma

266 217 0 y33:66 66 yawma

267 217 50 x34:18 17 wa-'ayya!ma~! days

268 218 0 y34:30 29 yawmi~

269 219 0 y34:40 39 wayawma

270 220 0 y34:42 41 fa!lyawma

271 221 0 y35:14 15 wayawma

272 222 0 y36:54 54 fa!lyawma

273 223 0 y36:55 55 !alyawma

274 224 0 y36:59 59 !alyawma

275 225 0 y36:64 64 !alyawma

276 226 0 y36:65 65 !alyawma

277 227 0 y37:20 20 yawmu

278 228 0 y37:21 21 yawmu

279 229 0 y37:26 26 !alyawma

280 229 51 x37:33 32 yawma^'i&i~ that day

281 230 0 y37:144 144 yawmi

282 231 0 y38:16 15 yawmi

283 232 0 y38:26 25 yawma

284 233 0 y38:53 53 liyawmi

285 234 0 y38:78 79 yawmi

286 235 0 y38:79 80 yawmi

287 236 0 y38:81 82 yawmi

288 237 0 y39:13 15 yawmi~

289 238 0 y39:15 17 yawma

290 239 0 y39:24 25 yawma

291 240 0 y39:31 32 yawma

292 241 0 y39:47 48 yawma

293 242 0 y39:60 61 wayawma

294 243 0 y39:67 67 yawma

295 243 52 x39:71 71 yawmikum your day

296 243 53 x40:9 9 yawma^'i&i~ that day

297 244 0 y40:15 15 yawma

298 245 0 y40:16 16 yawmahum

299 246 0 y40:16 16 !alyawma

300 247 0 y40:17 17 !alyawma

301 248 0 y40:17 17 !alyawma

302 249 0 y40:18 18 yawma

303 250 0 y40:27 28 biyawmi

304 251 0 y40:29 30 !alyawma

305 252 0 y40:30 31 yawmi

306 253 0 y40:32 34 yawma

307 254 0 y40:33 35 yawma

308 255 0 y40:46 49 wayawma

309 256 0 y40:49 52 yawma~!

310 257 0 y40:51 54 wayawma

311 258 0 y40:52 55 yawma

312 258 54 x41:9 8 yawmayni 2 days

313 258 55 x41:10 9 -'ayya!mi~ 4 days

314 258 56 x41:12 11 yawmayni 2 days

315 258 57 x41:16 15 -'ayya!mi~ days

316 259 0 y41:19 18 wayawma

317 260 0 y41:40 40 yawma

318 261 0 y41:47 47 wayawma

319 262 0 y42:7 5 yawma

320 263 0 y42:45 44 yawma

321 264 0 y42:47 46 yawmu~

322 264 58 x42:47 46 yawma^'i&i~ that day

323 265 0 y43:39 38 !alyawma

324 266 0 y43:65 65 yawmi~

325 266 59 x43:67 67 yawma^'i&i~ that day

326 267 0 y43:68 68 !alyawma

327 267 60 x43:83 83 yawmahum

328 268 0 y44:10 9 yawma

329 269 0 y44:16 15 yawma

330 270 0 y44:40 40 yawma

331 271 0 y44:41 41 yawma

332 271 61 x45:14 13 -'yya!ma days

333 271 62 x45:17 16 yawma

334 272 0 y45:27 26 wayawma

335 273 0 y45:26 25 yawmi out of seq

336 274 0 y45:27 26 yawma^'i&i~

337 275 0 y45:28 27 !alyawma

338 276 0 y45:34 33 !alyawma

339 276 63 x45:34 33 yawmikum your day

340 277 0 y45:35 34 fa!lyawma

341 278 0 y46:5 4 yawmi

342 279 0 y46:20 19 wayawma

343 279 64 x46:20 19 fa!lyawma today

344 280 0 y46:21 20 yawmi~

345 281 0 y46:34 33 wayawma

346 282 0 y46:35 34 yawma

347 283 0 y50:20 19 yawmu

348 284 0 y50:22 21 !alyawma

349 285 0 y50:30 29 yawma

350 286 0 y50:34 33 yawmu

351 286 65 x50:38 37 -'ayya!mi~ 6 days

352 287 0 y50:41 40 yawma

353 288 0 y50:42 41 yawma

354 289 0 y50:42 41 yawmu F missed

355 290 0 y50:44 43 yawma

356 291 0 y51:12 12 yawmu

357 292 0 y51:13 13 yawma

358 292 66 x51:60 60 yawmihim that day of theirs

359 293 0 y52:9 9 yawma

360 293 67 x52:11 11 yawma^'i&i~ that day

361 294 0 y52:13 13 yawma

362 294 68 x52:45 45 yawmahum

363 295 0 y52:46 46 yawma

364 296 0 y54:6 6 yawma

365 297 0 Y skipped

366 298 0 y54:8 8 yawmu~ Y had 54:7

367 299 0 y54:19 19 yawmi

368 300 0 y54:48 48 yawma

369 301 0 y55:29 29 yawmi~

370 301 69 x55:39 39 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

371 302 0 y56:50 50 yawmi~

372 303 0 y56:56 56 yawma

373 303 70 x57:4 4 -'ayya!mi~ 6 days

374 304 0 y57:12 12 yawma

375 305 0 y57:12 12 !alyawma

376 306 0 y57:13 13 yawma

377 307 0 y57:15 14 fa!lyawma

378 308 0 y58:6 7 yawma

379 309 0 y58:7 8 yawma

380 310 0 y58:18 19 yawma

381 311 0 y58:22 22 wa!lyawmi

382 312 0 y60:3 3 yawma

383 313 0 y60:6 6 wa!lyawma

384 314 0 y62:9 9 yawmi F missed

385 315 0 y64:9 9 yawmu

386 316 0 y64:9 9 liyawmi

387 317 0 y64:9 9 yawma

388 318 0 y65:2 2 wa!lyawmi

389 319 0 y66:7 7 !alyawma

390 320 0 y66:8 8 yawma

391 321 0 y68:24 24 !alyawma

392 322 0 y68:39 39 yawmi

393 323 0 y68:42 42 yawma

394 323 71 x69:7 7 -'ayya!mi~ 8 days

395 323 72 x69:15 15 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

396 323 73 x69:16 16 yawma^'i&i~ that day

397 323 74 x69:17 17 yawma^'i&i~ that day

398 323 75 x69:18 18 yawma^'i&i~ that day

399 323 76 x69:24 24 !l-'ayya!mi days

400 324 0 y69:35 35 !alyawma

401 325 0 y70:4 4 yawmi~

402 326 0 y70:8 8 yawma

403 326 77 x70:11 11 yawma^'i&i~ that day

404 327 0 y70:26 26 biyawmi

405 327 78 x70:42 42 yawmahum that day of theirs

406 328 0 y70:43 43 yawma

407 329 0 y70:44 44 !lyawmu

408 330 0 y73:14 14 yawma

409 331 0 y73:17 17 yawma~!

410 331 79 x74:9 9 yawma^'i&i~ that day

411 332 0 y74:9 9 yawmu~

412 333 0 y74:46 47 biyawmi

413 334 0 y75:1 1 biyawmi

414 335 0 y75:6 6 yawmu

415 335 80 x75:10 10 yawma^'i&i~ that day

416 335 81 x75:12 12 yawma^'i&i~ that day

417 335 82 x75:13 13 yawma^'i&i~ that day

418 335 83 x75:22 22 yawma^'i&i~ that day

419 335 84 x75:24 24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

420 335 85 x75:30 30 yawma^'i&i~ that day

421 336 0 y76:7 7 yawma~!

422 337 0 y76:10 10 yawma~!

423 338 0 y76:11 11 !lyawmi that day

424 339 0 y76:27 27 yawma~!

425 340 0 y77:12 12 yawmi~

426 341 0 y77:13 13 liyawmi

427 342 0 y77:14 14 yawmu

428 342 86 x77:15 15 yawma^'i&i~ that day

429 342 87 x77:19 19 yawma^'i&i~ that day

430 342 88 x77:24 24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

431 342 89 x77:28 28 yawma^'i&i~ that day

432 342 90 x77:34 34 yawma^'i&i~ that day

433 343 0 y77:35 35 yawmu

434 343 91 x77:37 37 yawma^'i&i~ that day

435 344 0 y77:38 38 yawmu

436 344 92 x77:40 40 yawma^'i&i~ that day

437 344 93 x77:45 45 yawma^'i&i~ that day

438 344 94 x77:47 47 yawma^'i&i~ that day

439 344 95 x77:49 49 yawma^'i&i~ that day

440 345 0 y78:17 17 yawma

441 346 0 y78:18 18 yawma

442 347 0 y78:38 38 yawma

443 348 0 y78:39 39 !lyawmu

444 349 0 y78:40 41 yawma

445 350 0 y79:6 6 yawma

446 350 96 x79:8 8 yawma^'i&i~ that day

447 351 0 y79:35 35 yawma

448 352 0 y79:46 46 yawma

449 353 0 y80:34 34 yawma

450 353 97 x80:37 37 yawma^'i&i~ that day

451 353 98 x80:38 38 yawma^'i&i~ that day

452 353 99 x80:40 40 yawma^'i&i~ that day

453 354 0 y82:15 15 yawma

454 355 0 y82:17 17 yawmu F missed

455 356 0 y82:18 18 yawmu

456 357 0 y82:19 19 yawma

457 357 100 x82:19 19 yawma^'i&i~ that day

458 358 0 y83:5 5 liyawmi~

459 359 0 y83:6 6 yawma

460 359 101 x83:10 10 yawma^'i&i~ that day

461 360 0 y83:11 11 biyawmi

462 360 102 x83:15 15 yawma^'i&i~ that day

463 361 0 y83:34 34 fa!lyawma

464 362 0 y85:2 2 wa!lyawmi

465 363 0 y86:9 9 yawma

466 363 103 x88:2 2 yawma^'i&i~ that day

467 363 104 x88:8 8 yawma^'i&i~ that day

468 363 105 x89:23 24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

469 363 106 x89:23 24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

470 363 107 x89:25 25 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

471 364 0 y90:14 14 yawmi~

472 364 108 x99:4 4 yawma^'i&i~ that day

473 364 109 x99:6 6 yawma^'i&i~ that day

474 364 110 x100:11 11 yawma^'i&i~ that day

475 365 0 y101:4 3 yawma

476 365 111 x102:8 8 yawma^'i&i~ that day

Notes: The total count is 476 instead of 475 because Yuksel's unused 297 is numbered. Interestingly, this is number 365 in my list! "F missed" indicates that this mention is not found in Flugel's concordance. One verse in Yuksel is slightly "out of sequence." Three mentions of "day" refer to "part of a day." Two of Yuksel's verse numbers were incorrect or nonstandard.

Unusual transliteration symbols: ~ nunates the previous vowel ! is alif, and also hamzat-ul-wasl - is alif as a chair for hamza ' is hamza & is dhal ^ is a point (used with hamza).

LOMAX: Edip Yuksel wrote: "Just now I saw Lomax' legthy answer which is trying to confuse the simple issue. I am, inshallah, going to expose his blindig prejudice, as I did before."

It is my sincere hope that Yuksel can do what he claims. But I fear that he must first cast the beam out of his own eye before he will be able to help me with my own defects of vision.

My answer was not "lengthy," rather it was short, in its summary, and lengthy only because the supporting data was appended. Yes, this issue is simple. How many times does the word "day" occur in the Qur'an?

The short answer is zero, because "day" is an English word. One will note that zero is divisible by both 19 and 365 without any remainder.

But, really, we are talking about an Arabic word. But what Arabic word? It turns out that this is not a simple a question as the Khalifites would pretend. If the word is "yawm" in all its forms, the answaer is 475 times, to the best of my knowledge, and I have made it easy to correct me by publishing my "lengthy" response. I actively invite and hope for correction.

Eliminating the non-singular forms, we still have 445. To get 365, it is necessary to eliminate some singular forms. An obvious candidate is yawma'idh, which means, literally, "the day when," and 'idh is written connected with yawm, so one may be able to claim, by the perverse logic typical of Khalifites, that this is a different word (but Khalifa translates it using the word "day"). This will only account for 70 mentions; we still have 375 left. If we eliminate all forms with pronoun suffixes, there remain 364, or, instead, we can eliminate all forms with prefixes, in which case their remain 356. I haven't yet found a way to get 365. My guess is that either there is a missing occurrence in the list, in which case 364 becomes 365, or previous sources accidentally counted, like Yuksel, one of the yawma'idh occurrences.

Edip Yuksel wrote: "For those who wonder our previous debate with Lomax on the code 19, please download a copy of "Running Like Zebras" from: http://www.moslem.org/yuksel.htm"

I thank Yuksel for the link. . . .

As for "running like zebras," I would rather run like a zebra, which is a honest creature meaning harm to no one, than bark like a hyena.

Edip Yuksel wrote: "Wait Lomax. The candle of falsifiers cannot misguide people against the light of the truth."

Satan has power only over those who follow him. Khalifa said, a false messenger is a messenger of Satan. This is the warning, as always there is a warning, like the warning of the angels at Babylon.

With the work I did, and presuming that Yuksel had actually counted the words, it should be only a few minutes to make a preliminary comment on my paper. After all, all it talked about is a word count, and the differences between my count and Yuksels's count were thoroughly and clearly cited. I found numerous clear errors in Yuksel's count. I hope that he or anyone else can find any remaining errors in mine.

But, true to form, Yuksel responds, not with facts, but with bluster. Instead of joining with others as seekers of truth, he blames me for "extreme skepticism." Yuksel, repent; your repentance will open for you the gates of paradise and ward off from you humiliation in this life and the next. I do not write all this but in the hope of guidance for myself and for others, including you and other brothers and sisters who, like

Dr. Khalifa, were misled by this particular fitna.

LOMAX: Edip Yuksel wrote: "Well, Lomax you are exposed many times of trying to confuse the issue by a wobbly extreme skepticism. Thank God it has been documented in "Running Like Zebras" for those who seek the truth."

For me, the matter becomes more and more clear. Originally, the "numerical miracles" were presented by Dr. Khalifa as a proof that even the skeptical could examine and test. Supposedly it was "scientific" and "mathematical" proof. Now, when one of these claims is carefully examined, and the results of the investigation are published in a way that makes it easy for anyone to check the results, Yuksel can only refer to "skepticism" as if it were something hateful. This is the mark of religious fanaticism; more and more, I see his resemblance to the very religious scholars he hates. This is not surprising, that the son would resemble his father.

Edip Yuksel wrote: "As for your recent posting on the frequency of the word "day", wait few days for its exposition. And do not forget that God is the only master of the day of judgment. The miracle of the Quran will continue to increase the faith of believers despite of falsifiers."

A "falsifier" is someone who changes the truth. Yuksel is the man who, with his own hand, with white-out and pen, altered the text of the Qur'an, by his own admission. He is the man who published a list, supposedly of all occurrences of the word "day" in the Qur'an, and this list was false on its face, and even more false when examined in detail. If I have erred in my publication, I invite correction, something Yuksel does not do; in fact he hates it.

My original work on the 19 contained a detailed discussion of the question of how many times the word "Allah" occurs in the Qur'an. That discussion, based on the work of Khalifa collated with the work of Phillips, and a direct examination of the Qur'an were these two sources differed, was in error as to its conclusions. The error proceeded from the fact that Phillips had not found all of Khalifa's errors, and the errors that remained were balancing errors; the result being that the count of "Allah", excluding the initial bismillahs, but including the first, was 2699; thus Khalifa, apparently, was correct in his later assertion that the count becomes 2698 if 9:128-129 are excluded.

(Of course, it is also 2698 in Warsh without truncating sura 9, because Warsh does not include 1:1 as a verse of the Qur'an.)

But I only was able to discover this once I obtained a copy of the Arabic/English edition of Khalifa's translation, which gives a runninig total. With that running total, I could compare it with the earlier verse-by-verse total from Visual Presentation of the Miracle, and find the remaining discrepancies. Khalifa's early work was full of errors.

My point is that, even though I published clearly founded and verifiable (but wrong) evidence that the count was 2701, no Khalifite pointed out where I was wrong. this is because they do not actually count these things: they are people of the very taqlid they condemn.

At one time, by his report, Yuksel actually did do quite a bit of counting. But he has settled into belief, and this 365 day question is the proof.

When I started to count, I did not know whether or not the count would be 365 days or not. I merely thought it was absurd to debate the significance of a phenomenon that had not been shown to exist.

The little boy who said that the emperor had no clothes was not a skeptic, he merely reported what he saw.

However, so many times has this particular "emperor" appeared naked inpublic, I do now expect him to be unclothed, and I am not sure that I willcontinue to spend the dozen or so hours of work that it took, in thiscase, to carefully collate the data, every time another Khalifite claimappears.

If there is a numerical miracle in the Qur'an, the Khaliftes are guilty, not of proclaiming it, but of concealing it by a confusion of false claims. I am still, from time to time, working with people who believe they have found statistically signficant phenomena; so far, no cigar, but, as Yuksel says, judgment is with Allah, and he guides to his path whom he wills.

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(Devam/Continued)

365 Days: Literal Harmony and Astronomical Events

This is n internet argument on the frequency of the word YaWM (Day) in the Quran. In the end of this lengthy argument, Daniel Lomax admitted that the frequency of the word YaWM (day) in singular form is indeed 365, its plural form is 30, and the total of all its derivatives is 475 (19x25). This is one of the rare arguments that both parties finally reach to the same conclusion.

Edip Yuksel versus Daniel Lomax, at al

THERE ARE 365 OCCURRENCES OF THE WORD "YWM" (DAY) IN THE QURAN

LOMAX: Of the 475 total occurrences of all forms of "yawm," 3 are in the dual and 27 are in the plural, leaving 445 in the singular. . . .Yuksel's counts do not add up to 365 because he skipped his number 297. To summarize the discrepancies, besides plurals, Yuksel has not counted any of the forms ending with ^-i&i~, except for one single mention at 45:27. This accounts for 69 omissions. He counted 6 mentions of fa!lyawma out of 8 (2 omissions). He also inconsistently counted simple forms of yawm with suffixed pronouns: 1 out of 4 occurrences of yawmahum were counted (3 omissions), 1 out of 2 yawmihim (1 omissions), and yawmikum and yawmukum were not counted at all (5 omissions). Finally, he missed a mention of yawma at 45:17. With the 30 duals and plurals, this accounts for the difference of 111.

I see no way to reconcile this data with the claim of 365 mentions. The sloppiness of the counting is typical of Khalifite claims; if the count works out, research and checking have a tendency to stop.

YUKSEL: Well, as you see, I did not stop. (It is another proof that I am not a Khalifite as projected by a confessed Muhammadan, Lomax). I would like to thank Lomax for his efforts. I Hope it will serve a good function to find the truth of this matter. Based on Lomax's tedious work, I have corrected several typo errors. As for his summary of "discrepancies," here are my answers:

I did not count the word YWM (pronounced as yawm) with suffixes. I did not need to mention this, since the word (YWM) by itself was sufficient to express this point. In my earlier posting I wrote about "the frequency of the word "yawm" day (in its singular form) in the Quran." A non-hostile eye would easily notice that I did not mention "yawmahum" (their days), nor yawma-izin (that day), etc. In fact, the counting method we deduce from this word is used for all other computations. For instance, in the count of the word ALLAH (GOD) we did not count the ones with the suffix HUMMA. As we discussed in my book "Running Like Zebras," (available from http://www.moslem.com [and from www.yuksel.org]) a clear, sound and consistent counting method is employed in the mathematical structure of the Quran. The confusion here is superficially created by Lomax, whose skeptical confusion reaches a crescendo when it comes to the mathematical structure of the Quran, or monotheism.

The 45:27 in my list was merely a typing error. It should have been 45:17. I also omitted one, only one count of "fa!lyawma." Lomax confused the word I have counted in 7:51 with the one I have not. He is right regarding the second omission. I have missed the word "fa!lyawma" in 46:20. This, by the way, makes my count 365.

As I stated above, Lomax wrongly identified the word I have counted in 7:51. There, I did not count "yawmahum" (their days) as he claimed; I counted "fa!lyawma" which he wrongly accused me of its omission.

Below is my correction of the list presented by Lomax.

I have erased the notes regarding Flugel's concordance. It is irrelevant at this point and will complicate the simple counting of the word. Thanks to Lomax, he has already managed to create a non-friendly sceen by his "unusual transliteration symbols." Furthermore, in order to create consistency, I have translated the few words that he had forgotten to translate. I also want to remind the reader the fact that the three-letter root of the word in question is"YWM." The vowels used in English transliterations are not original letters.

ALL MENTIONS OF ANY FORM OF "YWM" IN THE QURAN

"YSEQ" is the number given by Yuksel to the mention, or is his number for the most recent mention.

"XSEQ" is the number of additional mentions that Lomax found. If "xseq" is 0, the mention is found in Yuksel's article. These numbers can be used to recover the verse order if the database has been resorted.

"VERSE" is the standard verse number, prefixed with "y" if it is from Yuksel, and "x" if it is not in his article.

"FORM" gives my own transliteration of the Arabic form. This is non-standard, but standard transliteration does not fully convey Arabic writing, only pronunciation, more or less. Transliteration notes are at the end.

"TRANS " is a rough translation of some words; also some mentions of "day" give a specific number, which is shown.

YSEQ XSEQ VERSE FORM TRANS

1 1 0 y1:4 yawmi

2 2 0 y2:8 wabi!lyawmi

3 3 0 y2:48 yawma~!

4 4 0 y2:62 wa!lyawmi

5 4 1 x2:80 -'ayya!ma~! days

6 5 0 y2:85 wayawma

7 6 0 y2:113 yawma

8 7 0 y2:123 yawma~!

9 8 0 y2:126 wa!lyawmi

10 9 0 y2:174 yawma

11 10 0 y2:177 wa!lyawmi

12 10 2 x2:184 -'ayya!ma~! days

13 10 3 x2:184 -'ayya!mi~ days

14 10 4 x2:185 -'ayya!mi~ days

15 10 5 x2:196 -'ayya!mi~ days

16 10 6 x2:203 -'ayya!mi~ days

17 10 7 x2:203 yawmayni (2) days

18 11 0 y2:212 yawma

19 12 0 y2:228 wa!lyawmi

20 13 0 y2:232 wa!lyawmi

21 14 0 y2:249 !alyawma

22 15 0 y2:254 yawmu~

23 16 0 y2:259 yawma~!

24 17 0 y2:259 yawmi~

25 18 0 y2:264 wa!lyawmi

26 19 0 y2:281 yawma~!

27 20 0 y3:9 liyawmi~

28 20 8 x3:24 -'ayya!ma~! days

29 21 0 y3:25 liyawmi~

30 22 0 y3:30 yawma

31 22 9 x3:41 -'ayya!mi~ (3) days

32 23 0 y3:55 yawmi

33 24 0 y3:77 yawma

34 25 0 y3:106 yawma

35 26 0 y3:114 wa!lyawmi

36 26 10 x3:140 !al-'ayya!mu days

37 27 0 y3:155 yawma

38 28 0 y3:161 yawma

39 29 0 y3:166 yawma

40 29 11 x3:167 yawma^'i&i~ that day

41 30 0 y3:180 yawma

42 31 0 y3:185 yawma

43 32 0 y3:194 yawma

44 33 0 y4:38 bi!lyawmi

45 34 0 y4:39 wa!lyawmi

46 34 12 x4:42 yawma^'i&i~ that day

47 35 0 y4:59 wa!lyawmi

48 36 0 y4:87 yawmi

49 37 0 y4:109 yawma

50 38 0 y4:136 wa!lyawmi

51 39 0 y4:141 yawma

52 40 0 y4:159 wayawma

53 41 0 y4:162 wa!lyawmi

54 42 0 y5:3 !alyawma

55 43 0 y5:3 !alyawma

56 44 0 y5:5 !alyawma

57 45 0 y5:14 yawmi

58 46 0 y5:36 yawmi

59 47 0 y5:64 yawmi

60 48 0 y5:69 wa!lyawmi

61 48 13 x5:89 -'ayya!mi~ (3) days

62 49 0 y5:109 yawma

63 50 0 y5:119 yawmu

64 51 0 y6:12 yawmi

65 52 0 y6:15 yawmi~

66 52 14 x6:16 yawma^'i&i~ that day

67 53 0 y6:22 wayawma

68 54 0 y6:73 wayawma

69 55 0 y6:73 yawma

70 56 0 y6:93 !alyawma

71 57 0 y6:128 wayawma

72 57 15 x6:130 yawmikum your day

73 58 0 y6:141 yawma

74 59 0 y6:158 yawma

75 59 16 x7:8 yawma^'i&i~ that day

76 60 0 y7:14 yawmi

77 61 0 y7:32 yawma

78 62 0 y7:51 fa!lyawma

79 62 17 x7:51 yawmihim their day

80 63 0 y7:53 yawma

81 63 18 x7:54 -'ayya!mi~ (6) days

82 64 0 y7:59 yawmi~

83 65 0 y7:163 yawma

84 66 0 y7:163 wayawma

85 67 0 y7:167 yawmi

86 68 0 y7:172 yawma

87 68 19 x8:16 yawma^'i&i~ that day

88 69 0 y8:41 yawma

89 70 0 y8:41 yawma

90 71 0 y8:48 !alyawma

91 72 0 y9:3 yawma

92 73 0 y9:18 wa!lyawmi

93 74 0 y9:19 wa!lyawmi

94 75 0 y9:25 wayawma

95 76 0 y9:29 bi!lyawmi

96 77 0 y9:35 yawma

97 78 0 y9:36 yawma

98 79 0 y9:44 wa!lyawmi

99 80 0 y9:45 wa!lyawmi

100 81 0 y9:77 yawmi

101 82 0 y9:99 wa!lyawmi

102 83 0 y9:108 yawmi~

103 83 20 x10:3 -'ayya!mi~ (6) days

104 84 0 y10:15 yawmi~

105 85 0 y10:28 wayawma

106 86 0 y10:45 wayawma

107 87 0 y10:60 yawma

108 88 0 y10:92 fa!lyawma

109 89 0 y10:93 yawma

110 89 21 x10:102 -'ayya!mi days

111 90 0 y11:3 yawmi~

112 90 22 x11.07 -'ayya!mi~ days

113 91 0 y11:8 yawma

114 92 0 y11:26 yawmi~

115 93 0 y11:43 !alyawma

116 94 0 y11:60 wayawma

117 94 23 x11:65 -'ayya!mi~ (3) days

118 94 24 x11:66 yawma^'i&i~ that day

119 95 0 y11:77 yawmu~

120 96 0 y11:84 yawmi~

121 97 0 y11:98 yawma

122 98 0 y11:99 wayawma

123 99 0 y11:103 yawmu~

124 100 0 y11:103 yawmu~

125 101 0 y11:105 yawma

126 102 0 y12:54 !alyawma

127 103 0 y12:92 !alyawma

128 103 25 x14.05 bi-'ayya!mi days

129 104 0 y14:18 yawmi~

130 105 0 y14:31 yawmu~

131 106 0 y14:41 yawma

132 107 0 y14:42 liyawmi~

133 108 0 y14:44 yawma

134 109 0 y14:48 yawma

135 109 26 x14:49 yawma^'i&i~ that day

136 110 0 y15:35 yawmi

137 111 0 y15:36 yawmi

138 112 0 y15:38 yawmi

139 113 0 y16:25 yawma

140 114 0 y16:27 yawma

141 115 0 y16:27 !alyawma

142 116 0 y16:63 !alyawma

143 117 0 y16:80 yawma

144 118 0 y16:80 wayawma

145 119 0 y16:84 wayawma

146 119 27 x16:87 yawma^'i&i~ that day

147 120 0 y16:89 wayawma

148 121 0 y16:92 yawma

149 122 0 y16:111 yawma

150 123 0 y16:124 yawma

151 124 0 y17:13 yawma

152 125 0 y17:14 !alyawma

153 126 0 y17:52 yawma

154 127 0 y17:58 yawmi

155 128 0 y17:62 yawmi

156 129 0 y17:71 yawma

157 130 0 y17:97 yawma

158 131 0 y18:19 yawma~!

159 132 0 y18:19 yawmi~

160 133 0 y18:47 wayawma

161 134 0 y18:52 wayawma

162 134 28 x18:99 yawma^'i&i~ that day

163 134 29 18:100 yawma^'i&i~ that day

164 135 0 y18:105 yawma

165 136 0 y19:15 yawma

166 137 0 y19:15 wayawma

167 138 0 y19:15 wayawma

168 139 0 y19:26 !alyawma

169 140 0 y19:33 yawma

170 141 0 y19:33 wayawma

171 142 0 y19:33 wayawma

172 143 0 y19:37 yawmi~

173 144 0 y19:38 yawma

174 145 0 y19:38 !alyawma

175 146 0 y19:39 40 yawma

176 147 0 y19:85 yawma

177 148 0 y19:95 yawma

178 149 0 y20:59 yawmu

179 150 0 y20:64 !alyawma

180 151 0 y20:100 yawma

181 152 0 y20:101 yawma

182 153 0 y20:102 yawma

183 153 30 x20:102 yawma^'i&i~ that day

184 154 0 y20:104 yawma~!

185 154 31 x20:108 yawma^'i&i~ that day

186 154 32 x20:109 yawma^'i&i~ that day

187 155 0 y20:124 yawma

188 156 0 y20:126 !alyawma

189 157 0 y21:47 liyawmi

190 157 33 x21:103 yawmukum your day

191 158 0 y21:104 yawma

192 159 0 y22:2 yawma

193 160 0 y22:9 yawma

194 161 0 y22:17 yawma

195 161 34 x22:28 -'ayya!mi~ days

196 162 0 y22:47 yawma~!

197 163 0 y22:55 yawmi~

198 163 35 x22:56 yawma^'i&i~ that day

199 164 0 y22:69 yawma

200 165 0 y23:16 yawma

201 166 0 y23:65 !alyawma

202 167 0 y23:100 yawmi

203 167 36 x23:101 yawma^'i&i~ that day

204 168 0 y23:111 !alyawma

205 169 0 y23:113 yawma~!

206 170 0 y23:113 yawmi~ part day

207 171 0 y24:2 wa!lyawmi

208 172 0 y24:24 yawma

209 172 37 x24:25 yawma^'i&i~ that day

210 173 0 y24:37 yawma~!

211 174 0 y24:64 wayawma

212 175 0 y25:14 !alyawma

213 176 0 y25:17 wayawma

214 177 0 y25:22 yawma

215 177 38 x25:22 yawma^'i&i~ that day

216 177 39 x25:24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

217 178 0 y25:25 wayawma

218 178 40 x25:26 yawma^'i&i~ that day

219 179 0 y25:26 yawma~!

220 180 0 y25:27 wayawma

221 180 41 x25:59 -'ayya!mi~ (6) days

222 181 0 y25:69 yawma

223 182 0 y26:38 yawmi~

224 183 0 y26:82 yawma

225 184 0 y26:87 yawma

226 185 0 y26:88 yawma

227 186 0 y26:135 yawmi~

228 187 0 y26:155 yawmi~

229 188 0 y26:156 yawmi~

230 189 0 y26:189 yawmi

231 190 0 y26:189 yawmi~

232 191 0 y27:83 wayawma

233 192 0 y27:87 wayawma

234 192 42 x27:89 yawma^'i&i~ that day

235 193 0 y28:41 wayawma

236 194 0 y28:42 wayawma

237 195 0 y28:61 yawma

238 196 0 y28:62 wayawma

239 197 0 y28:65 wayawma

240 197 43 x28:66 yawma^'i&i~ that day

241 198 0 y28:71 yawmi

242 199 0 y28:72 yawmi

243 200 0 y28:74 wayawma

244 201 0 y29:13 yawma

245 202 0 y29:25 yawma

246 203 0 y29:36 !alyawma

247 204 0 y29:55 yawma

248 204 44 x30:4 wayawma^'i&i~ that day

249 205 0 y30:12 wayawma

250 206 0 y30:14 wayawma

251 206 45 x30:14 yawma^'i&i~ that day

252 207 0 y30:43 yawmu~

253 207 46 x30:43 yawma^'i&i~ that day

254 208 0 y30:55 wayawma

255 209 0 y30:56 yawmi

256 210 0 y30:56 yawmu

257 210 47 x30:57 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

258 211 0 y31:33 yawma~!

259 211 48 x32:4 -'ayya!mi~ (6) days

260 212 0 y32:5 4 yawmi~

261 212 49 x32:14 yawmikum your day

262 213 0 y32:25 yawma

263 214 0 y32:29 yawma

264 215 0 y33:21 wa!lyawma

265 216 0 y33:44 yawma

266 217 0 y33:66 yawma

267 217 50 x34:18 wa-'ayya!ma~! days

268 218 0 y34:30 yawmi~

269 219 0 y34:40 wayawma

270 220 0 y34:42 fa!lyawma

271 221 0 y35:14 wayawma

272 222 0 y36:54 fa!lyawma

273 223 0 y36:55 !alyawma

274 224 0 y36:59 !alyawma

275 225 0 y36:64 !alyawma

276 226 0 y36:65 !alyawma

277 227 0 y37:20 yawmu

278 228 0 y37:21 yawmu

279 229 0 y37:26 !alyawma

280 229 51 x37:33 yawma^'i&i~ that day

281 230 0 y37:144 yawmi

282 231 0 y38:16 yawmi

283 232 0 y38:26 yawma

284 233 0 y38:53 liyawmi

285 234 0 y38:78 yawmi

286 235 0 y38:79 yawmi

287 236 0 y38:81 yawmi

288 237 0 y39:13 yawmi~

289 238 0 y39:15 yawma

290 239 0 y39:24 yawma

291 240 0 y39:31 yawma

292 241 0 y39:47 yawma

293 242 0 y39:60 wayawma

294 243 0 y39:67 yawma

295 243 52 x39:71 yawmikum your day

296 243 53 x40:9 yawma^'i&i~ that day

297 244 0 y40:15 yawma

298 245 0 y40:16 yawmahum

299 246 0 y40:16 !alyawma

300 247 0 y40:17 !alyawma

301 248 0 y40:17 !alyawma

302 249 0 y40:18 yawma

303 250 0 y40:27 biyawmi

304 251 0 y40:29 !alyawma

305 252 0 y40:30 yawmi

306 253 0 y40:32 yawma

307 254 0 y40:33 yawma

308 255 0 y40:46 wayawma

309 256 0 y40:49 yawma~!

310 257 0 y40:51 wayawma

311 258 0 y40:52 yawma

312 258 54 x41:9 yawmayni (2) days

313 258 55 x41:10 -'ayya!mi~ (4) days

314 258 56 x41:12 yawmayni (2) days

315 258 57 x41:16 -'ayya!mi~ days

316 259 0 y41:19 wayawma

317 260 0 y41:40 yawma

318 261 0 y41:47 wayawma

319 262 0 y42:7 yawma

320 263 0 y42:45 yawma

321 264 0 y42:47 yawmu~

322 264 58 x42:47 yawma^'i&i~ that day

323 265 0 y43:39 !alyawma

324 266 0 y43:65 yawmi~

325 266 59 x43:67 yawma^'i&i~ that day

326 267 0 y43:68 !alyawma

327 267 60 x43:83 yawmahum their day

328 268 0 y44:10 yawma

329 269 0 y44:16 yawma

330 270 0 y44:40 yawma

331 271 0 y44:41 yawma

332 271 61 x45:14 -'yya!ma days

333 272 0 x45:17 yawma

334 273 0 y45:26 yawmi

335 274 0 y45:27 wayawma

336 274 62 x45:27 yawma^'i&i~ that day

337 275 0 y45:28 !alyawma

338 276 0 y45:34 !alyawma

339 276 63 x45:34 yawmikum your day

340 277 0 y45:35 fa!lyawma

341 278 0 y46:5 yawmi

342 279 0 y46:20 wayawma

343 280 0 y46:20 fa!lyawma

344 281 0 y46:21 yawmi~

345 282 0 y46:34 wayawma

346 283 0 y46:35 yawma

347 284 0 y50:20 yawmu

348 285 0 y50:22 !alyawma

349 286 0 y50:30 yawma

350 287 0 y50:34 yawmu

351 287 64 x50:38 -'ayya!mi~ (6) days

352 288 0 y50:41 yawma

353 289 0 y50:42 yawma

354 290 0 y50:42 yawmu

355 291 0 y50:44 yawma

356 292 0 y51:12 yawmu

357 293 0 y51:13 yawma

358 293 66 x51:60 yawmihim their day

359 294 0 y52:9 yawma

360 294 67 x52:11 yawma^'i&i~ that day

361 295 0 y52:13 yawma

362 295 68 x52:45 yawmahum their day

363 296 0 y52:46 yawma

364 297 0 y54:6 yawma

365 298 0 y54:8 yawmu~

366 299 0 y54:19 yawmi

367 300 0 y54:48 yawma

368 301 0 y55:29 yawmi~

369 301 69 x55:39 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

370 302 0 y56:50 yawmi~

371 303 0 y56:56 yawma

372 303 70 x57:4 -'ayya!mi~ (6) days

373 304 0 y57:12 yawma

374 305 0 y57:12 !alyawma

375 306 0 y57:13 yawma

376 307 0 y57:15 fa!lyawma

377 308 0 y58:6 yawma

378 309 0 y58:7 yawma

379 310 0 y58:18 yawma

380 311 0 y58:22 wa!lyawmi

381 312 0 y60:3 yawma

382 313 0 y60:6 wa!lyawma

383 314 0 y62:9 yawmi

384 315 0 y64:9 yawmu

385 316 0 y64:9 liyawmi

386 317 0 y64:9 yawma

387 318 0 y65:2 wa!lyawmi

388 319 0 y66:7 !alyawma

389 320 0 y66:8 yawma

390 321 0 y68:24 !alyawma

391 322 0 y68:39 yawmi

392 323 0 y68:42 yawma

393 323 71 x69:7 -'ayya!mi~ (8) days

394 323 72 x69:15 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

395 323 73 x69:16 yawma^'i&i~ that day

396 323 74 x69:17 yawma^'i&i~ that day

397 323 75 x69:18 yawma^'i&i~ that day

398 323 76 x69:24 !l-'ayya!mi days

399 324 0 y69:35 !alyawma

400 325 0 y70:4 yawmi~

401 326 0 y70:8 yawma

402 326 77 x70:11 yawma^'i&i~ that day

403 327 0 y70:26 biyawmi

404 327 78 x70:42 yawmahum their day

405 328 0 y70:43 yawma

406 329 0 y70:44 !lyawmu

407 330 0 y73:14 yawma

408 331 0 y73:17 yawma~!

409 331 79 x74:9 yawma^'i&i~ that day

410 332 0 y74:9 yawmu~

411 333 0 y74:46 biyawmi

412 334 0 y75:1 biyawmi

413 335 0 y75:6 yawmu

414 335 80 x75:10 yawma^'i&i~ that day

415 335 81 x75:12 yawma^'i&i~ that day

416 335 82 x75:13 yawma^'i&i~ that day

417 335 83 x75:22 yawma^'i&i~ that day

418 335 84 x75:24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

419 335 85 x75:30 yawma^'i&i~ that day

420 336 0 y76:7 yawma~!

421 337 0 y76:10 yawma~!

422 338 0 y76:11 !lyawmi

423 339 0 y76:27 yawma~!

424 340 0 y77:12 yawmi~

425 341 0 y77:13 liyawmi

426 342 0 y77:14 yawmu

427 342 86 x77:15 yawma^'i&i~ that day

428 342 87 x77:19 yawma^'i&i~ that day

429 342 88 x77:24 yawma^'i&i~ that day

430 342 89 x77:28 yawma^'i&i~ that day

431 342 90 x77:34 yawma^'i&i~ that day

432 343 0 y77:35 yawmu

433 343 91 x77:37 yawma^'i&i~ that day

434 344 0 y77:38 yawmu

435 344 92 x77:40 yawma^'i&i~ that day

436 344 93 x77:45 yawma^'i&i~ that day

437 344 94 x77:47 yawma^'i&i~ that day

438 344 95 x77:49 yawma^'i&i~ that day

439 345 0 y78:17 yawma

440 346 0 y78:18 yawma

441 347 0 y78:38 yawma

442 348 0 y78:39 !lyawmu

443 349 0 y78:40 yawma

444 350 0 y79:6 yawma

445 350 96 x79:8 yawma^'i&i~ that day

446 351 0 y79:35 yawma

447 352 0 y79:46 yawma

448 353 0 y80:34 yawma

449 353 97 x80:37 yawma^'i&i~ that day

450 353 98 x80:38 yawma^'i&i~ that day

451 353 99 x80:40 yawma^'i&i~ that day

452 354 0 y82:15 yawma

453 355 0 y82:17 yawmu

454 356 0 y82:18 yawmu

455 357 0 y82:19 yawma

456 357 100 x82:19 yawma^'i&i~ that day

457 358 0 y83:5 liyawmi~

458 359 0 y83:6 yawma

459 359 101 x83:10 yawma^'i&i~ that day

460 360 0 y83:11 biyawmi

461 360 102 x83:15 yawma^'i&i~ that day

462 361 0 y83:34 fa!lyawma

463 362 0 y85:2 wa!lyawmi

464 363 0 y86:9 yawma

465 363 103 x88:2 yawma^'i&i~ that day

466 363 104 x88:8 yawma^'i&i~ that day

467 363 105 x89:23 yawma^'i&i~ that day

468 363 106 x89:23 yawma^'i&i~ that day

469 363 107 x89:25 fayawma^'i&i~ that day

470 364 0 y90:14 yawmi~

471 364 108 x99:4 yawma^'i&i~ that day

472 364 109 x99:6 yawma^'i&i~ that day

473 364 110 x100:11 yawma^'i&i~ that day

474 365 0 y101:4 yawma

475 365 111 x102:8 yawma^'i&i~ that day

Unusual transliteration symbols: ~ nunates the previous vowel ! is alif, and also hamzat-ul-wasl - is alif as a chair for hamza ' is hamza & is dhal ^ is a point (used with hamza)

CONCLUSIONS:

I expect Lomax to reflect on this corrected table and acknowledge the following facts:

1. We both made errors in the counting.

2. After the corrections, the fact still remains intact: the frequency of the word "YWM" (in its singular form) is equal to the number of days in a solar year: 365.

3. As Lomax has acknowledged, the frequency of dual and plural forms is 30. Does it require too much imagination to see this number as indicator of average number of days in a month?

4. The total frequency of all forms of the word "YWM" as acknowledged by Lomax, is 475, that is, 19x25. (Congratulations for discovering this fact "by accident.")

God always exposes those who rejects the truth (47:29). Here is how:

First, in our previous arguments on the code 19, Lomax always tried to come up with different ways of count that were not divisible by the code. In other words, he always escaped from that number, fulfilling the prophetic description of 74:50. However, here, God Almighty trapped him with that number. In trying to escape from 365 he resorted to 475, a number divisible by 19. Observing his 19-phobic behavior, I am sure he would have rejected the total 475 had he noticed that it was divisible by 19 or had we introduced it as an evidence for the mathematical code of the Quran.

Second, Lomax translated SOME of those forms in his list. Inadvertently, he demonstrated the truth since NONE of the forms he has translated were counted by us. If you count the frequency of UNtranslated form(s) you will have 365. Coincidence?

Also there was a divine sign for Lomax to stop and reflect. He noticed it, but did not take heed. Lomax wrote: "The total count is 476 instead of 475 because Yuksel's unused 297 is numbered. Interestingly, this is number 365 in my list!" He does not know that God Almighty shows His signs to us even through sloppy work.

5. Fuad Abdulbaqy's concordance is much more accurate than the concordances used by Lomax. His concordance, Flugel, (1) misses three occurrences out of 475, (2) does not follow the standard verse numbering, and (3) divides words into fictional different forms, confusing irrelevant vowels with letters. On the other hand, Abdulbaqy's concordance, (1) misses only one occurrence out of 475 and makes the correction in its introduction. (2) follows the standard verse numbering, and (3) divides words according to a grammatically reasonable classification. Despite my previous suggestions, Lomax is still insisting on not using this most accurate and popular index.

Abdulbaqi's concordance lists only 9 different forms of this word. Some of those forms should be combined, since the suffix "alif" does not add any extra meaning; except showing that the word is used as an object in the sentence. Therefore, we have only 6 different forms of this word mentioned in the Quran, not 34 diffirent forms as Lomax claims. Here are the different forms of "YWM" listed by "Mu'jam-ul Mufahras Lielfaz-il Quran-il Kareem," preceded by their frequency in the Quran:

365 ................ ywm, .................... day

5 ................ ywm-kum ............. your day

5 ................ ywm-hum ............. their day

3 ................ ywm-ayn .............. two days

27 ................ ayyaam ................ days

70 ................ ywm-ezen ............ that day

-----------------------------------------------------

475 (19x25)

"Indeed, they have rejected this without studying and examining it, and before understanding it. Thus did those before them disbelieve. Therefore, note the consequences for the transgressors. Some of them believe, while others disbelieve in it. Your Lord is fully aware of the evildoers." (10:39-40)

"The Hour has come closer, and the moon has split. Then they saw a miracle; but they turned away and said, "Old magic." They disbelieved, followed their own desires, and adhered to their old traditions. Sufficient warnings have been delivered to alert them. Great wisdom; but all the warnings have been in vain." (54:1-5).

"Disregard them until they meet THEIR DAY in which they are struck. On that DAY, their schemes will not protect them, nor will they be helped." (52:45-46)

"Read your own record. TODAY, you suffice as your own reckoner." (27:14)

"Then, when the horn is blown. That will be a DIFFICULT DAY. For the disbelievers, not easy." (74:9-10).

"God will judge among you on the DAY OF RESURRECTION regarding all your disputes." (22:69).

"You shall respond to your Lord before a DAY comes which is decreed inevitable by God. There will be no refuge for you on THAT DAY, nor an advocate." (42:47).

LOMAX: Edip Yuksel wrote: "There are 365 occurrences of the word "ywm" (day) in the quran"

IF we exclude the phrase "the day when," and forms of YWM with attached pronouns, such as "their day," and all the dual and plural occurrences (for the phrase and the forms with attached pronouns are certainly singular), then this statement is true. It should also be noted that, to arrive at this count, one must also include all forms of "day" with prefixed prepositions and conjunctions, as well as with the suffixed alif of the indefinite accusative.

Yuksel has consistently objected to specifying such detail, but it is important: what is being done here is to determine the method of counting words which allegedly leads to the "miracle." To discriminate words for counting purposes we need to know about these details.

Yuksel did not indentify any counting errors in my paper. There is one, described below. But I did, apparently, incorrectly assign his counts in some cases. This was due to the fact that his original article did not specify which forms were being counted: I divided the occurrences in the Qur'an into two piles: his, on the one hand, and the others which he had not mentioned. Where there were two occurrences in one verse, and one had been counted and one had not, I assigned the first to Yuksel: until I did my study I had no way of knowing which forms he was counting and which ones he was not, and, once it was relatively clear, I forgot to go back and see if I could reassign these occurrences to show a more consistent pattern.

Yuksel wrote: "I did not count the word YWM (pronounced as yawm) with suffixes. I did not need to mention this, since the word (YWM) by itself was sufficient to express this point. In my earlier posting I wrote about "the frequency of the word 'yawm' day (in its singular form) in the Quran." A non-hostile eye could have easily noticed that I did not mention "yawmahum" (their days), nor yawma-izin (that day), etc."

I am very familiar with the arguments, and I did not know what Yuksel claims I would "easily notice" if I were not hostile. Of course, he can accuse me of lying, but the hostility would be his, not mine. I have never seen any mention of these distinctions in any of the writings on this subject. It was only after studying Yuksel's list that I even suspected that these forms were not being counted.

Quite the contrary, I would have assumed that a count of all the occurences of the singular form of the word "day" in the Qur'an would include "their day" and "your day;" after all, these are clearly singular. But we are getting closer to a description of what the rules are for counting. It would be better if these rules were disclosed at the outset; unless, of course, one's purpose is to make the "miracle" look as impressive as possible.

Yuksel wrote: "In fact, the counting method we deduce from this word is used for all other computations. For instance, in the count of the word ALLAH (GOD) we did not count the ones with the suffix HUMMA.

Fascinating. I had not noticed this; this is the first mention of this fact I have seen anywhere. I was already aware that the count included the two orthographically distinct forms ALLAH and LILLAH, but not that it excluded the form with the suffix (which, in the original unmarked Arabic, consists of a single M appended to the end of the word, and which makes it mean "O Allah." Thus it is used in prayers where Allah is directly addressed by name.) The H is not part of the suffix; rather it is part of the name ALLAH.

Yuksel wrote: "As we discussed in my book 'Running Like Zebras,' ... a clear, sound and consistent counting method is employed in the mathematical structure of the Quran. The confusion here is superficially created by Lomax, whose skeptical confusion reaches a crescendo when it comes to the mathematical structure of the Quran, or monotheism."

"Running Like Zebras" is a fairly disorganized collection of arguments. It does not describe, at least as far as I have been able to find, any "clear, sound and consistent counting method." Yuksel is here claiming that the only confusion which exists on this subject is that which I have "created," but why is that simple facts like the omission of "Allahumma" from the count of "Allah" are not mentioned until now? Was this omission common knowledge? Again and again, the count of Allah has been described as "the frequency of occurrence of the word "God" (Allah) in the Qur'an." I would expect this to include "O God," (Allahumma) unless otherwise stated.

So now I look up one of these five mentions in "The Final Testament," the one at 3:26. Sure enough, whereas Khalifa capitalizes the occurrences of Allah (translating them as GOD), here he translates Allahumma as "our god." But "our god" in Arabic would be "ilAhunaa", which does occur once in the Qur'an, at 29:46. No, Allah is the personal name of the one God in Arabic, and "Allahumma" means "O God," the one God, not merely "my God," or "our God, or "your God," but THE God. Or, to put it the way Allah has commanded us to put it, when speaking to the people of the Book, "Our god and your god are one GOD."

So now we see how the meaning of the Qur'an was distorted in "Final Testament" to maintain this "miracle." One does not find this particular distortion in the earlier translation by Khalifa, "Qur'an: The Final Scripture."

Yuksel wrote: "The 45:27 in my list was merely a typing error. It should have been 45:17. I also omitted one, only one count of "fa!lyawma." Lomax confused the word I have counted in 7:51 with the one I have not. He is right regarding the second omission. I have missed the word "fa!lyawma" in 46:20. This, by the way, makes my count 365."

What Yuksel has not made plain is that my errors were in assigning his counts to specific forms of the word. Since I did not know at the outset what specific forms he was counting (in spite of his charge that only a hostile eye would not have known), I assigned the first form in a verse where there were two to his count and made the second form one that he had not counted. Then I forgot to go back and see if changing this would rectify his inconsistencies. This was my error.

Yuksel wrote: "Below is my correction of the list presented by Lomax."

Three days later, this correction still has not appeared. Perhaps it is lost in the net somewhere. But I will correct my list, found at http://www.crl.com/~marjan. BTW, if any reader has trouble accessing that site, please let me know. I have had two reports of Netscape crashing when trying to access it (but my copy reads it fine). I have refrained from posting it here because of its length.

Yuksel wrote: "I expect Lomax to reflect on this corrected table and acknowledge the following facts: 1. We both made errors in the counting."

I made one error in identifying the form of a count and several errors in allocating counts to Yuksel. I did not expect my work to be free of error. The error in identification, however, was not caught by Yuksel, at least not specifically. He only asserts that a total is different than what I reported, without pointing out the specific instance of the error. This was less than helpful.

Yuksel wrote: "2. After the corrections, the fact still remain intact: the frequency of the word "YWM" (in its singular form) is equal to the number of days in a solar year: 365."

I can now say with high certainty that, if the forms with attached pronouns and with the suffix 'idhin are excluded, it is true that there are 365 mentions. For some reason Yuksel is allergic to mentioning the exceptions; I suspect it is because it definitely dilutes the impact of the "miracle." He also does not mention inconvenient facts, such as that there are 365.25 days, not 365 days, in the solar year. Since "part of a day" is mentioned several times in the Qur'an (these have been included in the count of YAWM), perhaps there is some way to reconcile this fractional difference.

Yuksel wrote: "3. As Lomax has acknowledged, the frequency of dual and plural forms is 30. Does it require too much imagination to see this number as indicator of average number of days in a month?"

The average number of days in a month is, more accurately, 29.53. What Yuksel is doing is showing that cross-connections can be made between bodies of data. What he has not done is to show that these cross- connections are statistically signifigant. He has not even tried, unless one counts sheer verbal bluster as trying. One measure of effort in which I will probably never surpass Yuksel is in words per argument. Just look at "Running Like Zebras."

Yuksel wrote: "4. The total frequency of all forms of the word "YWM" as acknowledged by Lomax, is 475, that is, 19x25. (Congratulations for discovering this fact "by accident.")"

I have elsewhere stated the obvious: one out of nineteen statistics, collected at random, will be divisible by 19. This is not a "miracle." So the existence of 19-divisible statistics does not prove anything, unless it is shown that they occur substantially more often than one out of nineteen examinations. Of course, if one may manipulate counting criteria, one may make it appear that they occur much more often. This is why it is so important that the criteria for counting be clearly and specifically stated in a way that they cannot be manipulated.

By selecting such criteria, knowing the effects in advance, one may make it appear that 19-divisible statistics are more common than one would expect by chance, but there is a limit to this effect. Essentially, if one has selected the criteria to make a certain group of counts come out 19-divisible, assuming that the original data is random and not ordered by 19-divisibility, this selection should not increase the occurrence of 19-divisibility in new counts done after the selection.

But if the selection criteria can be nudged each time, because of the unique character of each word, for example, there is no limit to the number of "miraculous" statistics that could be created with diligent labor.

Yuksel wrote: "God always exposes those who rejects the truth (47:29). Here is how: In our previous arguments on the code 19, Lomax always tried to come up with different ways of count that were not divisible by the code."

What I have done is not to deny legitimate counts, but to show that there are alternate ways of counting. With a real "mathematical code," this will not deny a legitimate decoding; it only bears on the question of whether or not the counting may have been manipulated to produce the announced result.

Yuksel wrote: "In other words, he always escaped from that number, fulfilling the prophetic description of 74:50. However, here, God Almighty trapped him with that number. In trying to escape from 365 he resorted to 475, a number divisible by 19. Observing his 19-phobic behavior, I am sure he would have rejected the total 475 had he noticed that it was divisible by 19 or had we introduced it as an evidence for the mathematical code of the Quran."

I have never denied that there are many nineteen-divisible counts in the Qur'an. Yuksel has simply lost his mind in his polemic.

Yuksel wrote: "Second, Lomax translated SOME of those forms in his list. Inadvertently, he demonstrated the truth since NONE of the forms he has translated were counted by us. If you count the frequency of UNtranslated form(s) you will have 365. Coincidence?"

Not at all. I only translated forms which were apparently not included in Yuksel's list. Had Yuksel's list, proposed as proof, been correct, there would have been no problem, except for one word, which I still promise I will get to.

Yuksel wrote: "Also there was a divine sign for Lomax to stop and reflect. He noticed it, but did not take heed: "The total count is 476 instead of 475 because Yuksel's unused 297 is numbered. Interestingly, this is number 365 in my list!" He does not know that God Almighty shows His signs to us even through sloppy work."

But I did notice it, and commented on it. This number is an artifact of my work, combined with Yuksel's work. We might choose to consider that as a sign that Allah is guiding our work. I have no problem with that; certainly I ask him for that. But we might also choose to consider it a sign that statistics like this turn up in collections of numbers of all kinds, not just in Qur'an, and I am certain that this is true, and Allah has power over all things.

Yuksel wrote: "5. Fuad Abdulbaqy's concordance is much more accurate than the concordances used by Lomax. His concordance, Flugel, (1) misses three occurrences out of 475, (2) does not follow the standard verse numbering, and (3) divides words into fictional different forms, confusing irrelevant vowels with letters. On the other hand, Abdulbaqy's concordance, (1) misses only one occurrence out of 475 and makes the correction in its introduction. (2) follows the standard verse numbering, and (3) divides words according to a grammatically reasonable classification. Despite my previous suggestions, Lomax is still insisting on not using this most accurate and popular index."

I am flabbergasted that Yuksel somehow tries to turn the fact that I discovered three errors in Flugel (and now one more) into some kind of defect on my part. No errors were discovered in Kassis. I have only one reason for not using AbdulBaqi: I do not have a copy. I have ordered one.

Since Yuksel has now asserted that Abdulbaqy "divides words according to a grammatically reasonable classification," will he now accept AbdulBaqi's classifications as legitimate for a preliminary investigation of word frequencies in the Qur'an? In other words, if AbdulBaqi lists two forms separately, we will not combine them, and if he combines them, we will not separate them?

This does not mean that, if word frequencies in AbdulBaqi turn out to show a clear pattern in the Qur'an, we might not then look for ways in which AbdulBaqi's classifications might be adjusted, but only that we will not deviate from these classifications *before* we have shown such a pattern. Without *some* clear method of identifying words, it will remain possible that the "miraculous" counts are merely an artifact of the counting process.

Yuksel wrote: "Abdulbaqi's concordance lists only 9 different forms of this word. Some of those forms should be combined, since the suffix "alif" does not add any extra meaning; except showing that the word is used as an object in the sentence. Therefore, we have only 6 different forms of this word mentioned in the Quran, not 34 diffirent forms as Lomax claims."

That one classification is legitimate does not deny that other classifications are legitimate. In this discussion, an excess of information is necessary at the beginning; it appears that Yuksel would like to cover up the various differences. I did not claim that it was illegitimate to combine the alif-suffixed forms, for example, nor that there was anything wrong with combining the genetive with nominative and accusative forms. In fact, my piece was primarily investigational: to determine exactly what was being counted, in the absence of clear statements from Yuksel and other claimants. However, note the slipperiness of what Yuksel is saying: AbdulBaqi lists the alif-suffixed forms separately, but we will combine them because it "does not add any meaning;" i.e., the alif only indicates how the word is being used in the sentence (which often does add meaning), but does not make a variation in the meaning of the noun itself. But this could also be asserted about "yawmikum," etc., (that it is "your" day does not make it other than a "day") and it is even more true about "ALLHM"; for the M does not change the meaning of ALLH, any more than prefixing a YA to the sacred name changes its meaning (both forms would mean "O God!").

It is no wonder that the rules for counting words have not been stated. Yuksel, I suspect, knows that if he states clear rules, there will still be this exception and that exception.

Yuksel wrote: "Here are the different forms of "YWM" listed by "Mu'jam-ul Mufahras Lielfaz-il Quran-il Kareem," preceded by their frequency in the Quran:

365 ywm day

5 ywm-kum your day

5 ywm-hum their day

3 ywm-ayn two days

27 ayyaam days

70 ywm-ezen that day

---------------------------------

475 (19x25)"

It appears that this summary is accurate (except for a minor detail: the count for "ywm-hum" includes "ywm-him"). It matches my corrected database derived from Kassis and Flugel. Note that the occurrences of words do include all the forms with prefixes, but not those with suffixes other than alif. But, looking at this summary, I was able to find one more error in Flugel that I did not discover previously.

Flugel counts 40:16 as an occurrence of yawmahum. However, the "hum" is not attached to "yawm." Instead, it is a separate pronoun. With the correction implied by this, my counts match the AbdulBaqi counts. Note that Yuksel did not catch this error, though he did assert, correctly, that I had missed a count (actually, the count was not missed, but rather misidentified). He did not specify the misidentified count, though the whole point of my publication of the detailed list and the summary totals by form was to make it easier to find discrepancies like this. It appears that Yuksel reasons from conclusions, not from primary evidence. The current database may be found at http://www.crl.com/~marjan, as 365day.doc.

Yuksel wrote: "Indeed, they have rejected this without studying and examining it, and before understanding it. Thus did those before them disbelieve."

I have probably studied and examined the "miracle of the nineteen" more closely than nearly every supporter or critic of it. Yuksel may be an exception, and I think there are a few others. As to "understanding," Allah knows best who is best in understanding. I continue to examine the claims of numerical coherency in the Qur'an. That the boy cried "wolf" falsely so many times does not prove that there is no wolf, only that the boy is not to be trusted.

YUKSEL: Yes Lomax, the answer was attached. Thank you.

I was expecting an acknowledgement of the fact that the singular form of the word "ywm" (day), (without suffixes) occurs in the Quran 365 times, its plural forms "yawmayn" and "ayyaam" occur 30 times, and all the forms of the word occur 475 (19x25) times. However, you chose not to acknowledge this simple fact.

LOMAX: The day you learn to be fully accurate in what you say, that day will I acknowledge what you say as true without reservation. You still have not quite done it.

I will say what I can say. If it is not enough for you, well, may Allah inform us as to the truth.

The word "ywm" in all its forms occurs in the Qur'an, according to my research, 475 times. This is equal to 19x25, for those who consider such correspondences significant.

The dual and plural forms together occur 30 times.

If one excludes forms with any suffix other than the alif of the accusative, and the dual and plural forms, there remain 365 occurrences.

All these facts are either explicitly stated in my corrected paper or are easily derived from it.

Now, you have repeatedly stated that there is a clear and concise method for counting words in the Qur'an.

(1) What is this method? Can you state it in a way such that it can be applied to any word, without knowing in advance what the word is? Can it be stated so clearly that a computer algorithm could be used to count words?

(2) With the word "Yawm," all forms together occur an exact multiple of 19 times. This seems to be significant to you. If we count a series of words like "yawm" in the Qur'an, do you expect that the totals for all forms of the words (let us restrict ourselves to nouns, for simplicity) will be divisible by 19 more than would be expected from random variation?

We already know that this is not true for "Allah." In this case, in the received text, there are 2816 occurrences. It is necessary to exclude the bismillahs other than 1:1, and 9:128, and the five "Allahumma" mentions, to come up with a multiple of 19.

"Allahumma" is clearly a form of "Allah," even more than is "Lillah."

This whole matter exposes only how slippery are word definitions and how you have been less than open about discussing all this. In all our discussion, knowing how important was the issue of how to count words, the exclusion of "Allahumma" was never mentioned. It was never mentioned in any publication of Khalifa, as far as I am aware. Khalifa has even distorted his translation of "Allahumma" to make it appear that it does not contain the word "Allah"!

Yuksel, you know the Qur'an well enough to know what is the fate of those who know the truth and who conceal it. But then there is an exception: "illa ladhiyna taabuw wa aslahuw wa bayyanuw." (2:160). It is enough for me that I have reminded you of this.

You are like the magicians of Pharaoh; and you object to anyone who shines light on your ropes and hidden wires. But there remains time for you to come forward and declare the truth, though it grows short.

I fully understand how difficult this would be for you. Yet the reward from Allah would be tremendous.

Yuksel, you are intelligent enough to know that there are methods for objectively weighing the significance of "coincidences." It would be enough, I think, if you would fully cooperate with applying these techniques to the study of the "miracle." They are statistical techniques, and their results are thus not fully certain, but they are far more reliable than an ad hoc "Gee whiz, that's amazing," and, with a large enough sample, statistical results can be *very* reliable.

[YUKSEL: Years after this internet debate, I noticed that some other people are also raising the question about ALLAHUMMA (translated as 'our Lord'), which occurs 5 times in the Quran. They ask why this word is not included in the count of ALLAH (God), which is 2698 (19x142). Those who know basics of Arabic grammar will know the reason easily. Those who do not have this knowledge can learn the difference by checking the context of the usage of ALLAHUMMA and ALLAH. Here are few clues for those who do not know Arabic:

1. "UMMA" is not really a suffix. There is no such a suffix in Arabic. ALLAHUMMA is an abbrevated statement usually translated "o my/our Lord."

2. ALLAHUMMA differs from ALLAH since it cannot be the subject in a statement. Therefore, you cannot replace ALLAHUMMA in the statements where ALLAH is the subject. For instance, "ALLAH created the universe." In Arabic you cannot say "ALLAHUMMA created the universe." Thus, the word ALLAHUMMA is not the same as ALLAH.

3. ALLAHUMMA is also different than all other attributes of God, and it may not be considered an attribute at all. For instance you can say "ALLAH is Merciful," but you cannot say "ALLAH is ALLAHUMMA."

4. ALLAHUMMA, though it contains the word ALLAH, yet it is a different word. For instance, though the attributes HAKAM (Judge) and HAKYM (Wise) contain the root letters HKM, yet they are in different forms and have different meanings. Thus each is counted seperately. Another example is RAHMAN (Gracious) and RAHYM (Merciful). Though both contain the root letters RHM, yet they are in different forms and thus they are counted seperately.]

Shawki HAMDAN: He also told you that if you follow him you would be wrong. He told you that unless you verify his statements, you do not have to believe him. Have you done that Hyder ? All I hear you saying is that some anonymous person improved your awareness. Who is this person ? Maybe I can improve his awareness.

The proof of the falsehood of these verses can be verified by anyone, even you !

Farid ud-Dien RICE: To what extent have you verified it, Shawki? Br. Abdurrahman Lomax was himself once a follower of Khalifa, and even knew him personally. Br. Lomax tried to verify things for himself, and then found many mistakes in Khalifa's counts. He has even posted himself here the fallacy in the number of counts of the word "Day" in the Qur'an (which the Khalifites claim to be 365, if I remember right), posting every occurrence of the word "Day" which he found. It did not turn out to be the number the Khalifites claim it is. Have you checked things to the same extent Br. Lomax has?

FINALLY

YUKSEL: Farid ud-Dien Rice who was relying on Lomax did not know that Lomax in the end of our argument corrected his errors. Rice and other sectarian folks, while accusing others not having checked things extensively, followed our argument blindly. I did not answer Lomax's lengthy reply, since in his last reply he finally accepted the truth without hiding it under his usual elegant and verbose rhetoric, but only with little nagging. I do not want to dwell on his misguided and erroneous new allegations. Lomax and his ditto-heads have been exposed sufficiently in our Internet argument titled "Running Like Zebras."

Indeed, the truth of the matter depends neither on me nor on Lomax. It is an objective fact that can easily be verified or falsified by others. I thank to Lomax for allowing us to demonstrate one of the mathematical patterns of the Quran for those who do not accept claims without verification (17:36). Below is the complete list of the frequency of the singular word "DAY" (YaWM) in the Quran:

No -----> Sura:Verse

1 ------> 1 :4

2 ------> 2:8

3 ------> 2:48

4 ------> 2:62

5 ------> 2:85

6 ------> 2:113

7 ------> 2:123

8 ------> 2:126

9 ------> 2:174

10 ------> 2:177

11 ------> 2:212

12 ------> 2:228

13 ------> 2:232

14 ------> 2:249

15 ------> 2:254

16 ------> 2:259

17 ------> 2:259

18 ------> 2:264

19 ------> 2:281

20 ------> 3:9

21 ------> 3:25

22 ------> 3:30

23 ------> 3:55

24 ------> 3:77

25 ------> 3:106

26 ------> 3:114

27 ------> 3:155

28 ------> 3:161

29 ------> 3:166

30 ------> 3:180

31 ------> 3:185

32 ------> 3:194

33 ------> 4:38

34 ------> 4:39

35 ------> 4:59

36 ------> 4:87

37 ------> 4:109

38 ------> 4:136

39 ------> 4:141

40 ------> 4:159

41 ------> 4:162

42 ------> 5:3

43 ------> 5:3

44 ------> 5:5

45 ------> 5:14

46 ------> 5:36

47 ------> 5:64

48 ------> 5:69

49 ------> 5:109

50 ------> 5:119

51 ------> 6:12

52 ------> 6:15

53 ------> 6:22

54 ------> 6:73

55 ------> 6:73

56 ------> 6:93

57 ------> 6:128

58 ------> 6:141

59 ------> 6:158

60 ------> 7:14

61 ------> 7:32

62 ------> 7:51

63 ------> 7:53

64 ------> 7:59

65 ------> 7:163

66 ------> 7:163

67 ------> 7:167

68 ------> 7:172

69 ------> 8:41

70 ------> 8:41

71 ------> 8:48

72 ------> 9:3

73 ------> 9:18

74 ------> 9:19

75 ------> 9:25

76 ------> 9:29

77 ------> 9:35

78 ------> 9:36

79 ------> 9:44

80 ------> 9:45

81 ------> 9:77

82 ------> 9:99

83 ------> 9:108

84 ------> 10:15

85 ------> 10:28

86 ------> 10:45

87 ------> 10:60

88 ------> 10:92

89 ------> 10:93

90 ------> 11:3

91 ------> 11:8

92 ------> 11:26

93 ------> 11:43

94 ------> 11:60

95 ------> 11:77

96 ------> 11:84

97 ------> 11:98

98 ------> 11:99

99 ------> 11:103

100 ------> 11:103

101 ------> 11:105

102 ------> 12:54

103 ------> 12:92

104 ------> 14:18

105 ------> 14:31

106 ------> 14:41

107 ------> 14:42

108 ------> 14:44

109 ------> 14:48

110 ------> 15:35

111 ------> 15:36

112 ------> 15:38

113 ------> 16:25

114 ------> 16:27

115 ------> 16:27

116 ------> 16:63

117 ------> 16:80

118 ------> 16:80

119 ------> 16:84

120 ------> 16:89

121 ------> 16:92

122 ------> 16:111

123 ------> 16:124

124 ------> 17:13

125 ------> 17:14

126 ------> 17:52

127 ------> 17:58

128 ------> 17:62

129 ------> 17:71

130 ------> 17:97

131 ------> 18:19

132 ------> 18:19

133 ------> 18:47

134 ------> 18:52

135 ------> 18:105

136 ------> 19:15

137 ------> 19:15

138 ------> 19:15

139 ------> 19:26

140 ------> 19:33

141 ------> 19:33

142 ------> 19:33

143 ------> 19:37

144 ------> 19:38

145 ------> 19:38

146 ------> 19:39

147 ------> 19:85

148 ------> 19:95

149 ------> 20:59

150 ------> 20:64

151 ------> 20:100

152 ------> 20:101

153 ------> 20:102

154 ------> 20:104

155 ------> 20:124

156 ------> 20:126

157 ------> 21:47

158 ------> 21:104

159 ------> 22:2

160 ------> 22:9

161 ------> 22:17

162 ------> 22:47

163 ------> 22:55

164 ------> 22:69

165 ------> 23:16

166 ------> 23:65

167 ------> 23:100

168 ------> 23:111

169 ------> 23:113

170 ------> 23:113

171 ------> 24:2

172 ------> 24:24

173 ------> 24:37

174 ------> 24:64

175 ------> 25:14

176 ------> 25:17

177 ------> 25:22

178 ------> 25:25

179 ------> 25:26

180 ------> 25:27

181 ------> 25:69

182 ------> 26:38

183 ------> 26:82

184 ------> 26:87

185 ------> 26:88

186 ------> 26:135

187 ------> 26:155

188 ------> 26:156

189 ------> 26:189

190 ------> 26:189

191 ------> 27:83

192 ------> 27:87

193 ------> 28:41

194 ------> 28:42

195 ------> 28:61

196 ------> 28:62

197 ------> 28:65

198 ------> 28:71

199 ------> 28:72

200 ------> 28:74

201 ------> 29:13

202 ------> 29:25

203 ------> 29:36

204 ------> 29:55

205 ------> 30:12

206 ------> 30:14

207 ------> 30:43

208 ------> 30:55

209 ------> 30:56

210 ------> 30:56

211 ------> 31:33

212 ------> 32:5

213 ------> 32:25

214 ------> 32:29

215 ------> 33:21

216 ------> 33:44

217 ------> 33:66

218 ------> 34:30

219 ------> 34:40

220 ------> 34:42

221 ------> 35:14

222 ------> 36:54

223 ------> 36:55

224 ------> 36:59

225 ------> 36:64

226 ------> 36:65

227 ------> 37:20

228 ------> 37:21

229 ------> 37:26

230 ------> 37:144

231 ------> 38:16

232 ------> 38:26

233 ------> 38:53

234 ------> 38:78

235 ------> 38:79

236 ------> 38:81

237 ------> 39:13

238 ------> 39:15

239 ------> 39:24

240 ------> 39:31

241 ------> 39:47

242 ------> 39:60

243 ------> 39:67

244 ------> 40:15

245 ------> 40:16

246 ------> 40:16

247 ------> 40:17

248 ------> 40:17

249 ------> 40:18

250 ------> 40:27

251 ------> 40:29

252 ------> 40:30

253 ------> 40:32

254 ------> 40:33

255 ------> 40:46

256 ------> 40:49

257 ------> 40:51

258 ------> 40:52

259 ------> 41:19

260 ------> 41:40

261 ------> 41:47

262 ------> 42:7

263 ------> 42:45

264 ------> 42:47

265 ------> 43:39

266 ------> 43:65

267 ------> 43:68

268 ------> 44:10

269 ------> 44:16

270 ------> 44:40

271 ------> 44:41

272 ------> 45:17

273 ------> 45:26

274 ------> 45:27

275 ------> 45:28

276 ------> 45:34

277 ------> 45:35

278 ------> 46:5

279 ------> 46:20

280 ------> 46:20

281 ------> 46:21

282 ------> 46:34

283 ------> 46:35

284 ------> 50:20

285 ------> 50:22

286 ------> 50:30

287 ------> 50:34

288 ------> 50:41

289 ------> 50:42

290 ------> 50:42

291 ------> 50:44

292 ------> 51:12

293 ------> 51:13

294 ------> 52:9

295 ------> 52:13

296 ------> 52:46

297 ------> 54:6

298 ------> 54:8

299 ------> 54:19

300 ------> 54:48

301 ------> 55:29

302 ------> 56:50

303 ------> 56:56

304 ------> 57:12

305 ------> 57:12

306 ------> 57:13

307 ------> 57:15

308 ------> 58:6

309 ------> 58:7

310 ------> 58:18

311 ------> 58:22

312 ------> 60:3

313 ------> 60:6

314 ------> 62:9

315 ------> 64:9

316 ------> 64:9

317 ------> 64:9

318 ------> 65:2

319 ------> 66:7

320 ------> 66:8

321 ------> 68:24

322 ------> 68:39

323 ------> 68:42

324 ------> 69:35

325 ------> 70:4

326 ------> 70:8

327 ------> 70:26

328 ------> 70:43

329 ------> 70:44

330 ------> 73:14

331 ------> 73:17

332 ------> 74:9

333 ------> 74:46

334 ------> 75:1

335 ------> 75:6

336 ------> 76:7

337 ------> 76:10

338 ------> 76:11

339 ------> 76:27

340 ------> 77:12

341 ------> 77:13

342 ------> 77:14

343 ------> 77:35

344 ------> 77:38

345 ------> 78:17

346 ------> 78:18

347 ------> 78:38

348 ------> 78:39

349 ------> 78:40

350 ------> 79:6

351 ------> 79:35

352 ------> 79:46

353 ------> 80:34

354 ------> 82:15

355 ------> 82:17

356 ------> 82:18

357 ------> 82:19

358 ------> 83:5

359 ------> 83:6

360 ------> 83:11

361 ------> 83:34

362 ------> 85:2

363 ------> 86:9

364 ------> 90:14

365 ------> 101:4

Below is the complete list of the frequency of the plural forms of the word "DAY" (AYyAM, YaWMaYN):

No -----> Sura:Verse

1 ------> 2:80

2 ------> 2:184

3 ------> 2:184

4 ------> 2:185

5 ------> 2:196

6 ------> 2:203

7 ------> 2:203

8 ------> 3:24

9 ------> 3:41

10 ------> 3:140

11 ------> 5:89

12 ------> 7:54

13 ------> 10:3

14 ------> 10:102

15 ------> 11:7

16 ------> 11:65

17 ------> 14:5

18 ------> 22:28

19 ------> 25:59

20 ------> 32:4

21 ------> 34:18

22 ------> 41:9

23 ------> 41:10

24 ------> 41:12

25 ------> 41:16

26 ------> 45:14

27 ------> 50:38

28 ------> 57:4

29 ------> 69:7

30 ------> 69:24

Below is the complete list of the frequency of the word "SHaHR" (Month):

No -----> Sura:Verse

1 ------> 2:185

2 ------> 2:185

3 ------> 2:194

4 ------> 2:194

5 ------> 2:217

6 ------> 5:2

7 ------> 5:97

8 ------> 9:36

9 ------> 34:12

10 ------> 34:12

11 ------> 46:15

12 ------> 97:3

That's the END of the debate on 365 days and plus, finally!

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Aşağıdaki iddiaları yapan kişi yazdığı konuda birşey bilmiyor maalesef. Hicri takvimi Kameri ile karıştırıyor, Miladi takvimi Şemsi ile karıştırıyor. Ne var ki cehaletine oranla öylesine atıyor ki, okuyan ve dinleyen bir şey bildiğini sanıyor.

Böylesine düzeysiz bir eleştiriye nasıl cevap verilebilir ki?

Selam,

Edip

Bu mucize iddiasındaki basit çarpıtmaları inceleyelim:

Dikkat ediniz; her iki mucize yalanı metninde de herhangi bir takvim değil astronomik bir olgu olan Dünyanın Güneş etrafında dönmesi referans alınmaktadır. Oysa takvimden bağımsız olarak salt astronomik olguyu ele alacak olursak bu süre 365 değil 365,25 gündür. Madem bir mucize iddiasında bulunuluyor ve herşeyi bilen, herşeye gücü yeten mükemmel yaratıcının mucize olarak Kurana böyle bir rakam yerleştirdiği söyleniyor o halde bu mucizenin tam ve kesin olmasını talep etmek hakkımız olmalı.

Bugün kullandığımız Miladi Takvime (Gregoryen takvimine) göre bir yıl üç defa 365, dördüncü yılda ise 366 gün sürer. Yani bu takvimi esas alacak olursak mucizemiz yine eksiktir. Ama zaten mucize iddiasında esas alınan nokta herhangi bir takvim (yani insanların kararlaştırdığı zaman birimleri) değil astronomik olgunun kendisi. Yani Dünyanın Güneşin etrafında bir kez dönmesi esnasında kendi ekseninde kaç kez döndüğü Bu rakam 365,25′tir.

Keza mucize iddiasında esas alınan herhangi bir takvim olsa iddia zaten baştan suya düşmüş olurdu. Çünkü kullanılan takvim sistemine göre tanım gereği bir yıl içindeki gün sayısı da değişir. Örneğin İslam Dünyasının kullandığı takvimde Hicri Yıl 354 gündür. Tarih boyunca kullanılmış olan farklı medeniyetlerin takvimlerinde de bir yıl farklı sayıda gün içermiştir. Yani bir yılın 365 gün olması mutlak değil sadece günümüzün çoğunluğu tarafından kullanılan Miladi Takvime göre (4 senede bir 366 gün çektiği için) kısmen doğrudur. Dolayısıyla mucizeciler mecburen yıl/sene birimini değil astronomik olgunun kendisini esas almaktalar. İşte bu noktada da diğer bir çarpıtma su yüzüne çıkmakta:

Farzedelim ki bugün Muhammed Peygamberden beri İslam Dünyasında kullanılmakta olan Hicri Takvimi kullanıyoruz. Yani bir yıl 354 gün çekmekte. Farzedelim ki Dünya bu takvimi kullanıyor. Bu durumda Kuranda gün kelimesinin 365 kere geçmesinin ilginç hiçbir yanı olur muydu? Olmazdı elbette Söz konusu astronomik olguya işaret etmeleri de anlamsız olurdu. Çünkü konuyla ilgili ayetlerde Dünyadan, Güneşten, astronomiden değil herhangi şeylerden bahsediliyor. Yani iddianın bütün büyüsü/çekiciliği bizim bugün -hasbel kader- 365 gün çeken bir takvim kullanıyor olmamızda.

Şundan emin olabiliriz ki eğer halâ Hicri Takvim kullanıyor olsaydık bu sefer de 354 rakamına uygun bir mucize yaratırlardı.

[/url]4. Kuran Öncesi Astronomi ve Takvim

Dikkat ediniz her iki mucize iddiacısı da ayrıca ne diyor?

  • Harun Yahya
    Kuranda gün kelimesinin 365 defa geçiyor olması, Dünya yörüngesi hakkında bize yüzyıllar öncesinden bilgi vermesi açısından çok önemli bir bulgudur.

  • Ömer Çelakıla ait siteden:
    Çünkü Dünya yörüngesi hakkında bize yüzyıllar öncesinden bilgi vermektedir.

Hangi bilgi yüzyıllar öncesinden verilmekte burada?

Dünyanın 365(,25) günde Güneş etrafında döndüğü zaten Kurandan yüzyıllar önce de biliniyordu. Yunan Astronomu Meton milattan önce 432 yılında (yani Kurandan 1.000 yıl önce) Dünyanın 365,25 günde Güneş etrafında döndüğünü hesaplamıştı.

Ayrıca daha sonra Gregoryen reformuna uğrayan ama temel olarak bugün halâ kullanmakta olduğumuz takvim İskenderiyeli Sosigenes tarafından Kurandan yaklaşık 7 asır önce bir yılın günlerini 365,25 olarak hesaplanarak oluşturulmuş; bu takvim M.Ö. 46 yılında Jülyen Takvimi olarak kabul görmüş ve batı dünyasında Kurandan önce yüzyıllar boyunca kullanılmıştır.

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16 ------> 2:259

17 ------> 2:259

That's the END of the debate on 365 days and plus, finally!

Edip Yüksel2:259 Yahut şu kimse gibisi de (dikkatini çekmedi mi?)... Altı üstüne gelmiş yıkıntı bir kasabaya uğrar ve "ALLAH bunu ölümünden sonra nasıl diriltebilir," der. Bunun üzerine ALLAH onu yüz sene ölü bıraktıktan sonra diriltti. "Burada ne kadar kaldın," dedi. "Bir gün yahut günün bir parçası kadar kaldım," dedi. "Hayır, sen yüz yıl kaldın. Yiyeceğine ve içeceğine bak hala bozulmamış. Eşeğine de bak. Seni halk için bir delil yaptık.69 Kemiklere dikkat et, onları nasıl üst üste koyuyor, sonra onlara nasıl da et giydiriyoruz." Durum kendisine aydınlanınca, "Artık ALLAH'ın her şeye gücü yettiğini biliyorum," dedi.

Sen böyle kimlerle konuştun Edip? Sen böyle söylediğinde "That's the END of the debate on 365 days and plus, finally!" onlar birşeyler söylemedilermi?

Yoksa onlar engellendimi, veya aaaa Edip'çiğim sen haklısın falanda demedilermi?

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Aşağıdaki iddiaları yapan kişi yazdığı konuda birşey bilmiyor maalesef. Hicri takvimi Kameri ile karıştırıyor, Miladi takvimi Şemsi ile karıştırıyor. Ne var ki cehaletine oranla öylesine atıyor ki, okuyan ve dinleyen bir şey bildiğini sanıyor.

Burada karışık olan ne var?

Dikkat ediniz; her iki mucize yalanı metninde de herhangi bir takvim değil astronomik bir olgu olan "Dünya’nın Güneş etrafında dönmesi" referans alınmaktadır. Oysa takvimden bağımsız olarak salt astronomik olguyu ele alacak olursak bu süre 365 değil 365,25 gündür. Madem bir ”mucize” iddiasında bulunuluyor ve herşeyi bilen, herşeye gücü yeten mükemmel yaratıcının mucize olarak Kuran’a böyle bir rakam yerleştirdiği söyleniyor o halde bu mucizenin ”tam ve kesin” olmasını talep etmek hakkımız olmalı.

Bugün kullandığımız Miladi Takvim'e (Gregoryen takvimine) göre bir yıl üç defa 365, dördüncü yılda ise 366 gün sürer. Yani bu takvimi esas alacak olursak mucizemiz yine eksiktir. Ama zaten mucize iddiasında esas alınan nokta herhangi bir takvim (yani insanların kararlaştırdığı zaman birimleri) değil astronomik olgunun kendisi. Yani Dünya’nın Güneş’in etrafında bir kez dönmesi esnasında kendi ekseninde kaç kez döndüğü... Bu rakam 365,25′tir.

Keza mucize iddiasında esas alınan herhangi bir takvim olsa iddia zaten baştan suya düşmüş olurdu. Çünkü kullanılan takvim sistemine göre tanım gereği bir yıl içindeki gün sayısı da değişir. Örneğin İslam Dünya’sının kullandığı takvimde Hicri Yıl 354 gündür. Tarih boyunca kullanılmış olan farklı medeniyetlerin takvimlerinde de bir yıl farklı sayıda gün içermiştir. Yani bir yılın 365 gün olması mutlak değil sadece günümüzün çoğunluğu tarafından kullanılan Miladi Takvim'e göre (4 senede bir 366 gün çektiği için) kısmen doğrudur. Dolayısıyla mucizeciler mecburen ”yıl/sene” birimini değil astronomik olgunun kendisini esas almaktalar. İşte bu noktada da diğer bir çarpıtma su yüzüne çıkmakta:

Farzedelim ki bugün Muhammed Peygamber’den beri İslam Dünyası'nda kullanılmakta olan Hicri Takvim'i kullanıyoruz. Yani bir yıl 354 gün çekmekte. Farzedelim ki Dünya bu takvimi kullanıyor. Bu durumda Kuran’da ”gün” kelimesinin 365 kere geçmesinin ilginç hiçbir yanı olur muydu? Olmazdı elbette... Söz konusu astronomik olguya işaret etmeleri de anlamsız olurdu. Çünkü konuyla ilgili ayetlerde Dünya’dan, Güneş’ten, astronomiden değil herhangi şeylerden bahsediliyor. Yani iddianın bütün ”büyüsü/çekiciliği” bizim bugün -hasbel kader- 365 gün çeken bir takvim kullanıyor olmamızda.

Şundan emin olabiliriz ki eğer halâ Hicri Takvim kullanıyor olsaydık bu sefer de 354 rakamına uygun bir mucize yaratırlardı.

Böylesine düzeysiz bir eleştiriye nasıl cevap verilebilir ki?

Düzeyli bir cevap verilebilir.

Mesela daha önce verdiğin gibi: "şimdi anlıyorum ki, Tanrı bir yıldaki 6 saatlik artık zamanı ikiyüzlülerin yaşaması için bırakmış." hatırlıyormusun?

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